Episode 17. Reshaping People-pleasing, Choices, & Ourselves: Doing the Work with Briania Davis
Doing the work in therapy is unique for each person.
Bethany chats with licensed marriage and family therapist Briania Davis who works primarily with people—often moms—experiencing overwhelm, stress, people-pleasing, and perfectionism. Davis shares how identity evolves with life stages, parenting, and cultural influences. They discuss distinguishing “have to/need to/want to,” making choices based on intention, and reframing people-pleasing as dependability while examining motivations like loyalty, obligation, and the need for appreciation. The conversation covers grief for past selves, pacing and pausing, finding “sparkles” of gratitude, using language and metaphors to clarify experience, and how therapy offers support, tools, or information and access to resources.
Say Hello to Your Therapist is a podcast where Bethany gets to sit down with fellow mental health professionals and have real talk about our work!
Available to listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other apps. Available to watch on YouTube! Follow the Instagram page for updates.
Bethany’s Links:
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Find more from Briania:
Things & people we talked about:
Marvel Comics
Iron Man/Tony Stark's Arc Reactor Battery different model evolutions
Elsa from Frozen: Don’t feel it, don’t let it show
Dave Matthews: The Space Between Lyrics
Denzel Washington quote: Don’t confuse movement with progress. My mother told me, she said, “Yeah you ‘cause you can run in place all the time and never get anywhere.” Dillard University 2015 Commencement Address | Denzel Washington: 15 min & 4 min clip
Aesop’s Fable The Tortoise & the Hare
Ashton Kutcher movies: Just Married with Brittany Murphy. I had a moment where I was briefly thinking of What Happens in Vegas, which has Cameron Diaz in it
Transcript
Bethany Valenti 1:41
Welcome Briania.
Briania Davis 1:43
Thank you.
Bethany Valenti 1:44
Thank you for being here. I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how you became a therapist.
Briania Davis 1:51
So to keep it, not long, but relatively, not short I, in- makes me sound old in 2006. I got this job as what they called like a teacher counselor at a level three detention facility. and I was there for about a year and a half and I was working with the youth eight to 17, and I just started to notice that there was this rotation of kids that would come in, say, go back out six, nine months later, they'd come back in. I was just like, I like working with kids, but I don't understand how we're helping them if they're just coming back. so it got me thinking, which sounds funny now, I didn't know that there was a field for therapy. It was not like a part of our everyday life growing up. And so, you know, I got on the internet was like, is there a way to do counseling with families? Lo and behold, marriage and family therapy, I was like, oh, okay.
Bethany Valenti 2:51
A whole field came up for
Briania Davis 2:52
A whole feel. I was like, there's a whole profession for it. Which again, makes me sound silly now because I'm in it. But then I enrolled in my master's program, did all that stuff, learned a bunch of fantastic things,
Bethany Valenti 3:06
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 3:06
graduated, did all the things, finally figured out that working with kids was fun, but working with family was hard
Bethany Valenti 3:15
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 3:16
because you can have an impact on the child, but it's much harder to have an impact on the whole dynamic.
Bethany Valenti 3:21
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 3:23
And so I was like, okay, yes, I'm in my thing. I found my thing. Now how do I make my thing me? And obviously like being a new clinician, it really shakes up like your sense of self. And so part of all of that was like, do I really know who I am? And so I went on this really not long, but very impactful journey of. Sorting through like my own stuff and I was like, good lord. No wonder why I was drawn to children. And so it's funny to say now that I don't really work with kids, I work with primarily adults, but I think it was a progression of starting with where I was. And then it's just kind of evolved with where I'm at in my own personal life.
Bethany Valenti 4:10
Does it feel like it's, I'm working with those kids who have now grown up, or is it not
Briania Davis 4:16
to some degree probably because they were, let's see, so 2006, that's almost 20 years ago.
Bethany Valenti 4:25
getting there? Yeah. When you said that, I was
Briania Davis 4:27
so
Bethany Valenti 4:27
20 years ago.
Briania Davis 4:29
it might be sort of like that natural progression of I'm getting older, like that population is getting older because like, I think I have a 12 year old. And so like I talk to her, I listen to her. We have a very healthy communicative relationship.
Bethany Valenti 4:45
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 4:45
Half the things she says, I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And so, working with today's adolescent,
Bethany Valenti 4:57
Yeah.
Briania Davis 4:58
I feel old saying this 'cause my dad said it to me. I just, I'm not in it. I don't get it. I, there's a, there's a barrier of full understanding.
Bethany Valenti 5:09
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 5:10
because they have so much more than what I had as a kid. Like there was no internet. I didn't have a cell phone at 12 or 13. I didn't get my first cell phone until I was 18.
Bethany Valenti 5:20
Yep.
Briania Davis 5:21
didn't get a first like, whole computer connected to the internet until I was a freshman in college.
Bethany Valenti 5:26
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 5:26
this whole generation is sort of like coming of age way sooner, than I did. But it's also like their parents are me. So there's more of a like, yes, I remember what it was like to be younger 'cause we're around the same age. So in terms of like your question of like an evolution of them growing up, it might be that was, that was never something that I kind of looked at, but sort of like in a trajectory. It may be, it's a, I'll have to think about that one a little longer, but I definitely feel like a connection to that one. Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 6:07
I was just curious if it was, like you were saying that it's hard to work with the families when they are that young, and so I was just curious if it turned into I'm working with those. Things that we saw then like how it's developed or advanced, or how they've coped for good or for bad.
Briania Davis 6:28
Their coping styles are definitely different. I think the other difference too is that back then I was working in a locked in facility, so they're like, they didn't have cell phones, there wasn't computer like accessibility to computers. The only time they had computers was at school. Um, you know, we were locked in a campus, like they, they went to school on campus. They may have visitors and things like that, but really it was just like this little
Bethany Valenti 7:00
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 7:01
community, you know, now, you know, working without adolescent, they're almost like little mini adults with mini computers in their hand, they have
Bethany Valenti 7:11
Yeah.
Briania Davis 7:11
access to so much, and sometimes I'm just. I'm in all of little kids now. It's like you are grown up but you're not grown, but you've been exposed to so many things. Specifically a pandemic like that was a first for the most of us.
Bethany Valenti 7:32
Yeah, yeah.
Briania Davis 7:34
and now I feel like not just with adolescents, but with maybe even younger, maybe eight, nine, you know, up until, you know, late sixties, late seventies, people are really starting to feel and see the effect of the pandemic.
Bethany Valenti 7:50
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 7:50
People aren't as social as they used to be. people are more digital than anything. People swipe for meetups just like they do for clothes.
Bethany Valenti 8:01
Right?
Briania Davis 8:02
you know, we order food to the door. It's not just pizza anymore, it's whole grocery list.
Bethany Valenti 8:07
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 8:07
You know what I mean? So life is different. And the ironic part is it almost again, age showing. It almost gives, because that's a little personal word, like the Jetson, just without the spaceships, you know, we have electronic vacuums
Bethany Valenti 8:25
Yeah.
Briania Davis 8:26
now and it's like, yeah, we have that. And it's just, it's just weird and odd to think about how far we've gone and yet how little certain things are.
Bethany Valenti 8:41
Yeah.
Briania Davis 8:42
And so in a roundabout way, like the reason why I'm in this field is because I just had a lot of questions
Bethany Valenti 8:48
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 8:49
and I felt like I did not have the depth to go to like quantum physics to try to figure out like all the craziness behind all the that. But it was like there is a science to this, so to speak. If I can understand this, then I can understand people. If I can understand people, then that helps me understand me. And then that means I can improve my relationships with all these little people in my bubble. And maybe my introvertedness will become extroverted and I won't feel, nervous talkin in public. But honestly, I think it has just made me more aware that I'm not the only one that's nervous in public and sort of that feeling of being seen that also help that happens in the therapeutic space. People feel heard. People feel seen, they don't feel judged or criticized. And so it's just like a little micro is microorganism in of itself. You impact one thing and then it ripples out and it goes with this, all these other things, and you're in it, but you also get to observe it. You're not really a part of it, but you are influenced in it.
Bethany Valenti 9:59
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 10:00
and it's, it's just a really interesting complex, yet beautiful, chaotic experience to kind of walk through life with people and then to reach a point and say, I think we've done it. And they go, I think you're right. And they kind of go back out into the world and they go back and they live their life. And you often wonder like, are they okay?
Bethany Valenti 10:28
Yeah.
Briania Davis 10:29
You may see them again. You may not, but you know, for the not short period, because some of them are a little longer than others, but for the period that you have them, it's like you're, you understand the relationship and they understand the relationship with you, It's just an experience is all, is what I keep telling people. I'm like, I, it's hard to conceptualize it and it's hard to put it in words, but when you experience it, you know what it feels like and it is very impactful and long lasting.
Bethany Valenti 10:58
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 10:59
And then it, what does that really, uh, where you do something and I impacts three other people and then that impacts three other people pay it forward.
Bethany Valenti 11:09
it forward. It pays forward. Yeah. Like they, it's like the, the relationship one-to-one representation of that kind of ripple effect that you were describing.
Briania Davis 11:20
Yes, it does. I had one client tell me one time, they said, I come to therapy to deal with people who aren't in therapy.
Bethany Valenti 11:28
Oh, yeah.
Briania Davis 11:29
yeah. I said, that's a, that's a really eloquent and very interesting way to. To highlight therapy, but you're absolutely, right. Yes, and I totally hear that and get that and see that. But honestly, it is like, because everything is so relational, like I may be working with an individual, but we're dealing with their siblings, their partners, their kids, their parents, their coworkers, their boss, the lady at the grocery store who won't give you your medicine because for whatever reason.
Bethany Valenti 12:02
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 12:03
And so we're learning how to manage our experiences with different kinds of people experiencing other things and of themselves, but you don't know what they're going through. But there's some sort of expectation that you have to be the bigger person. And it's like, do you have to be the bigger person or do you just have to be you? And however you show up is how you show up. And. At the end of the day, you're going to walk away from certain circumstances and you're never going to see that person again.
Bethany Valenti 12:38
Right?
Briania Davis 12:38
then there are gonna be other circumstances where you see that person every single day, like at work,
Bethany Valenti 12:43
Yep.
Briania Davis 12:44
you're still gonna have to do the job. So can you show up and do it? Or how negatively impactful is that environment? And what decisions do you really have?
Bethany Valenti 12:55
Right,
Briania Davis 12:56
I think that's the other part that I try to either highlight or bring to the surface and say,
Bethany Valenti 13:03
Yeah.
Briania Davis 13:04
have choices. They may not be the best choice, best choice, but nonetheless, you still have choices. And at the end of the day, whatever choice you make, I encourage people to always make sure that whatever choice they make is that it's worth it. Because if you're making a choice that is not worth it, then why are you making that decision?
Bethany Valenti 13:25
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 13:26
cause everything is a risk. It's just whether or not you wanna take it. And again, it comes back to that whole sentiment. Is it worth it? cause obviously I think all of us are taught to not use the word why clinically because it's a closed ended question, but
Bethany Valenti 13:41
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 13:42
it's my favorite question
Bethany Valenti 13:44
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 13:45
along with if you don't want to do that, then why are you doing it?
Bethany Valenti 13:49
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 13:51
And if you honestly cannot give yourself a good reason on why you're doing it, then we probably should have a little more of a conversation of why you feel like you have to make this choice. And sometimes it's out of loyalty, obligation, expectation, you know, and if that's the case, let's talk about that. Why do you feel like you have to do so? and that kind of leads into like another part. Like of like the why questions that I ask people is, do you have to, do you need to, do you want to,
Bethany Valenti 14:25
Mm. Yeah. Those distinctions are really necessary to highlight sometimes. Do you have to, is this a need? Is this a want to?
Briania Davis 14:34
Yes. And some people are like, I don't understand the question. Aren't those all the same
Bethany Valenti 14:39
Mm.
Briania Davis 14:40
to me? No, not really. There's a lot of stuff I want to do. I want to go to the beach.
Bethany Valenti 14:45
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 14:46
don't wanna have to work today. but sometimes I have to work,
Bethany Valenti 14:51
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 14:51
you know, I don't wanna pay bills, but I should pay bills.
Bethany Valenti 14:54
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 14:55
but helping people really discern between what do you have to do, what do you need to do, like, what do you wanna do to help them learn to prioritize things.
Bethany Valenti 15:05
Yeah.
Briania Davis 15:06
because a lot of clients will come in with. I don't necessarily think it's for time management, but that's kind of what they encompass it under is I just don't know how to manage my time
Bethany Valenti 15:18
Yeah.
Briania Davis 15:19
maybe.
Bethany Valenti 15:19
the want half to need are like really helpful for time management especially of like what has to get done. I was just talking with somebody yesterday, and we were coming up with like ways to prioritize that
Briania Davis 15:32
Hmm.
Bethany Valenti 15:33
could also like, get some sleep at night because there was all these priorities. And so it was like, okay, so can we, when are we gonna figure this out? Where are we gonna take the time from? and are the things that you're doing when you come home, things that have to be done or not? where is there flexibility?
Briania Davis 15:51
Right.
Bethany Valenti 15:52
you know, she said, yeah, sometimes it really is just like I might be just trying to work ahead or trying to get certain things done. And then other things it is like I have to do it because I need groceries or I need to do dishes, or it's, if I don't do this thing for work tomorrow, then I'm effed, you know, I'm just
Briania Davis 16:10
Yep,
Bethany Valenti 16:11
So.
Briania Davis 16:12
Ab- solutely. And sometimes, you know, people's brains just don't work in a sequential pattern.
Bethany Valenti 16:20
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 16:21
some things just aren't going to make the most sense and you just kind of have to do them in the order in which your, you're facing. You know, if you come in the house with bags full of groceries, but your sink is filled with dishes, which one do you tackle first? Because the dishes have been there for who knows how long. So is it really important? But you know that the groceries you have have to go in the refrigerator or they'll go
Bethany Valenti 16:48
They'll
Briania Davis 16:48
bad.
Bethany Valenti 16:48
spoil. Yep.
Briania Davis 16:49
you know, so just being able to go, yes, I will do this now
Bethany Valenti 16:53
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 16:54
I will do this later. But I think what people find most challenging is that they have to do one and then immediately go into the next part. Like there's no space for a break. Because if I take 15 and 20 minutes to myself between putting the groceries away and doing the dishes, I've wasted time.
Bethany Valenti 17:14
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 17:15
And that again, comes back to are we wasting time or are we taking time? Because you said something before of finding the time as if there are more than 24 hours in the day.
Bethany Valenti 17:28
Right.
Briania Davis 17:29
You know what I mean? We all get the same amount of time. I remember someone used to tell me that when I was younger. I was like, yeah, but I need more. I need way more.
Bethany Valenti 17:37
Yep.
Briania Davis 17:38
But now is,
Bethany Valenti 17:39
24 hours is not the same for
Briania Davis 17:41
it's not, no, because people, there are certain people. Like my dad He's very regimented. He does everything the same way at the same time. Every single day. He wake up at the same time. He has his tea, he has his toast, he goes for a walk, comes back, sits down, he does his things. He does lunch a certain time, and his life just goes that way, but,
Bethany Valenti 18:03
Love that for him.
Briania Davis 18:05
but he worked in a plant. He did swing shift, so 12 hours on, 12 hours off. So he had to have his life like that. Well, when you grow up and you play sports, your life is also very much regimented. You go to school, you have practice, you go to the next practice, you go to the next practice. You eat, you do your schoolwork, rinse and repeat.
Bethany Valenti 18:25
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 18:26
if your whole life is like that, don't feel like you have choices. So then when you do get choices,
Bethany Valenti 18:32
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 18:33
I don't know how to decide how to manage my time because my time was always managed by external factors.
Bethany Valenti 18:40
Yes.
Briania Davis 18:41
so I get a lot of clients who come in and they've never had to manage their time because other things,
Bethany Valenti 18:47
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 18:47
managed their time and they often say, I either don't have the time or I have to find the time, or I have to give up something else in order to make this thing
Bethany Valenti 18:56
Yes. Like, where are we taking it from? Because
Briania Davis 18:59
Yes,
Bethany Valenti 19:00
isn't that we're finding it, it's that we are taking it. The, the taking that you said earlier was really great.
Briania Davis 19:06
you have to decide, if I don't do this thing and I put this thing in its place, is this going to yield the outcome, the results, the benefits,
Bethany Valenti 19:16
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 19:16
that I'm looking for,
Bethany Valenti 19:18
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 19:19
I can't remember where I heard this or who said it, but they were like, if you wake up every day at seven o'clock and that's still not enough time for you, trying to cram more into the day is not going to make you feel productive. I was like, well, what am I supposed to do?
Bethany Valenti 19:38
Aren't
Briania Davis 19:38
As if, as if,
Bethany Valenti 19:39
to do more?
Briania Davis 19:40
as if, if the person can answer my question. But then that person goes on to say, if getting up at seven doesn't work, then you need to get up earlier. Getting up earlier was not something that popped in my head. It just wasn't. It was like, I get the time that I get because this is the time that I wake up,
Bethany Valenti 19:58
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 19:59
and so that then leads into, can I get up?
Bethany Valenti 20:04
Yep.
Briania Davis 20:05
Usually the answer to that is yes, but we go back to Do I want to?
Bethany Valenti 20:09
Yeah. Do you want to, or is this a phase of life where you can do that?
Briania Davis 20:14
Yes. Yes.
Bethany Valenti 20:16
something that just on a personal level, I've run into a lot, you know, I have little kids now, and so at different times of my life, yes, getting up early was my solution, but, and I went to bed early. As a result, there's, that's not what my life looks like now. It's very different because I have little kids that need to be put to bed
Briania Davis 20:39
Yeah,
Bethany Valenti 20:39
that, that get up, you know, so
Briania Davis 20:43
and life feels different when you have little kids because again, it's being managed by external factors.
Bethany Valenti 20:50
factors. Yeah.
Briania Davis 20:50
I absolutely love nap time. I miss nap time.
Bethany Valenti 20:54
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 20:55
it looks like you get to nap for a good two hours. I can either lay down and fall asleep with you, or I can utilize this time to get stuff done that I can't get done, you know, while you're awake. Sometimes it was nap, sometimes
Bethany Valenti 21:08
Yep.
Briania Davis 21:08
it wasn't. And I do think to some degree it is easier to have external factors create a routine because there's also that level of expectation.
Bethany Valenti 21:21
Yeah.
Briania Davis 21:21
And if you are a person who wants to meet the needs of other people. Disappointment is a really big motivator.
Bethany Valenti 21:30
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 21:30
I don't wanna let them down. I don't want them to be mad at me. I don't want to not be reliable or,
Bethany Valenti 21:39
Yeah.
Briania Davis 21:39
and I think that is very much what drives most parents, that, specifically the population that I work with is with moms. I want to be the best mom. I want to have a relationship with my kids that for some moms they did not have with their own parents or specifically their own mom. And it's like, there's this, it's not unrealistic, but I think there is a lack of definition of what being a mom to that person, um, sometimes that visualization is based off of the parent we either had or didn't have,
Bethany Valenti 22:15
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 22:16
or it's based off of. Something that we've seen in movies or in TV shows where it's like, yes, that's, that's what I want. That's what I wanna be able to have that exact relationship, with my kids. And then that begins to influence
Bethany Valenti 22:30
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 22:31
how we parent and how we communicate with our kids. And most of the time people just wanna have a good relationship with their kids.
Bethany Valenti 22:40
Yeah.
Briania Davis 22:42
But part of that conversation too is just realizing that our children, and as our kids get older, they're their own person just as much as we are, you know, so they are also influences the type of parenting that parents we become. And for me specifically, it is a mutually collaborative evolution of parenting. 'cause I say it every time they become another year older. I'm like, I was just getting settled in to 12.
Bethany Valenti 23:14
Right.
Briania Davis 23:16
Next month she'll be 13. And I feel like I'm gonna have to start over with learning this new stage of who she is at 13. Because who she's, who she is at 12 right now is not who she was at 11. And it was definitely not who she was at 10. And the same can be said for me, I'm not the same parent I was two years ago. So as she grows, I grow and we grow and then we grow as a family. And so having a kid has definitely shaped me as a person. It has definitely influenced my clinical lens when working with parents who have children of the same age that I do. and then she also keeps me sort of in the loop with their language. So like
Bethany Valenti 24:05
yeah.
Briania Davis 24:06
when I'm working with like 13 and 14 year olds and they say something. Honestly, like she's my point of reference. I'm like, I don't know what they meant when they said, can you explain it to me? so she's like my little secret co-counselor that nobody knows about, but she does. And if she can't answer it, then we essentially just go to the internet to try to figure it out. but she has definitely been an influence, like a huge, huge influence on me as just an overall person just because of simply who she is. Um, because she's very, very different than me.
Bethany Valenti 24:44
Yeah,
Briania Davis 24:45
I grew up playing sports. She does not like the sport.
Bethany Valenti 24:49
not the sports.
Briania Davis 24:50
Mm-hmm. I grew up outside. She is growing up inside. the music that she likes, I'm gravitating towards. The music that she likes, she's not gravitating towards mine. Um, she's very much a girl's girl, which I was not, and I am definitely not. But it's just, it's just a different experience, which again, it very much mimics the therapeutic space. It's very influential, you know, so I often tell clients, yes, to some degree, like, you're coming in because you are wanting help, or you're needing help, or you're needing the support. But through conversation, there are things that I am also learning about my own clinical lenses, my own clinical bias, sometimes my own clinical judgment. And when clients ask questions, I'm like, I never would've thought that, I never would've seen it like that. I had a client. Today he said that they didn't feel stuck, they felt suspended. And I was like,
Bethany Valenti 26:00
Wow.
Briania Davis 26:01
point of reference in sync with the puppets.
Bethany Valenti 26:04
Right?
Briania Davis 26:05
I was like, that is really the only visual cue, you know, that I could come up with. But it's also an experience that I've never had, or at least don't think I've had. But oftentimes, like when things come like that in the therapeutic space, I often sit and ponder on that like later. Like, have I ever felt suspended? What does suspended feel like? Because I do want to have some sort of emotional anchor
Bethany Valenti 26:35
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 26:36
what they're describing or what they're saying. Um.
Bethany Valenti 26:40
I'm trying to picture it in my head of like, stuck fe feels like where you're just really in one place and suspended almost feel like, feels like you might have some range of motion, but it only goes so far. I am, when I'm picturing the NSYNC like thing of like, you can move, but it's
Briania Davis 26:59
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 27:00
you can't separate from those strings.
Briania Davis 27:04
Right. But even in that sort of analogy, the other thing that just sort of came up, because you said strings was like Pinocchio, like if you go through like the series of like puppets in the movie, like all of them have strings that somebody's doing it. Right. and so in sort of like the metaphor of being suspended, are you just sitting there like that with nowhere to go? Or do you feel like somebody is moving you around and you're doing things that you really don't want to do? But for whatever reason, your circumstances or your finances keeps you in this sort of suspended feeling. So part of the other thing too is just really trying to deconstruct sort of that metaphorical experience of how that actually looks and feels physically.
Bethany Valenti 27:55
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 27:55
'cause there was a, I always quote this one too and I always butcher it, but it's my favorite thing that Denzel Washington ever said. He was given a speech out of college and he said, you can, you can run in place and go nowhere. You can get a lot done and still not go anywhere.
Bethany Valenti 28:13
Mm.
Briania Davis 28:14
And I often think about that when I feel stuck.
Bethany Valenti 28:17
Yeah.
Briania Davis 28:18
I'm doing a lot of things.
Bethany Valenti 28:19
You're not, you're not doing nothing, it's just you don't feel like you're going anywhere.
Briania Davis 28:23
I don't feel like I'm making progress. But then sometimes I think about this other metaphor that I heard. And it said, sometimes when you feel stuck, you're not really stuck. You're being planted, your roots are settling in and you're starting to grow. But growth is painful,
Bethany Valenti 28:43
Yes. Yes. Because you're creating a foundation. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 28:46
right? And so sometimes I get stuck in thinking really between those two spaces of feeling like I'm doing a lot, but I'm not going anywhere. But realizing that there is purpose and intention with being in a singular place because I'm really trying to create something that is sound, that is going to blossom and bloom. You know, if we're gonna go with the, the growth part, you know, into so many other things. And so again, trying to conceptualize what clients mean when they use those languages or those words outside of my own definition, helps them. Picture, like what that looks like for them. And I can help or at least try to help them understand in more physical terms, like what are those limitations? If you really, if you really do feel suspended, what is your range of motion?
Bethany Valenti 29:42
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 29:42
do you have control over? What can you move? And is that enough for right now until you can do more later? And I think pace and pause is something else that I'm starting to kind of grow into is learning that pausing is fine and learning how to pace myself is okay.
Bethany Valenti 30:05
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 30:06
'cause it's the whole, it's the old tale of like the tortoise and the hare.
Bethany Valenti 30:11
Mm.
Briania Davis 30:12
The tortoise takes its time, it takes longer, but eventually they get there. But the rabbit runs its race, it gets there fast, and it still has to wait.
Bethany Valenti 30:22
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 30:23
So, which wait is worth it? Which one is more beneficial? Taking your time and learning along the way, or just running through it and having to figure it out at the end.
Bethany Valenti 30:34
and I think my kind of reaction, my therapist brain, if I were talking about this with a client is when we were talking about context, like you were mentioning earlier, like there are situations where you need to just take the hair approach and then there are situations where the turtle approach is gonna be more necessary. And, and the more you can distinguish between the two, the more power than you have to kind of make the decision about how you're taking that time.
Briania Davis 31:03
Mm-hmm. And that's the, and that's sort of like the root of it all, is recognizing your power of choice,
Bethany Valenti 31:10
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 31:11
your ability to make authentic and effective decision making with the information that you have at the time that you have it.
Bethany Valenti 31:19
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 31:20
And then if something comes up later and new information is introduced, not blaming yourself or criticizing or judging yourself for making the decision that you made because you didn't have what you found out later. You know, hindsight's always in 2020.
Bethany Valenti 31:37
Yeah. Yep.
Briania Davis 31:39
but I have a lot of clients who often feel guilty for not taking the time because if I would've taken the time, I might've gotten that information before and I would've made a different decision.
Bethany Valenti 31:52
Hmm.
Briania Davis 31:53
Well, had what you had, you did the best that you could
Bethany Valenti 31:57
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 31:58
and cannot be enough for that moment. Can I accept to a certain degree that this was the decision that I made? And then can I take what I've learned? If that's the the language that we wanna use, can I take the lesson from that
Bethany Valenti 32:14
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 32:14
then be able to apply it to something else? 'cause I think that's the
Bethany Valenti 32:18
Yeah.
Briania Davis 32:18
Other thing that becomes very patterned in a lot of things is not recognizing the little lesson over time.
Bethany Valenti 32:27
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 32:28
I forget what she calls it, the movie on Hallmark, I think they're called God Wink. There's
Bethany Valenti 32:34
Oh, yeah,
Briania Davis 32:36
like three movies like that.
Bethany Valenti 32:38
yeah.
Briania Davis 32:39
Um, I had never heard that term before and I had looked for a clinical term for it, and I found some lady on TikTok, and I think she calls 'em sparkles.
Bethany Valenti 32:51
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 32:51
you need to look for the sparkles in your day to day.
Bethany Valenti 32:54
Yeah.
Briania Davis 32:55
And I was like, okay. I like that. I like sparkles. I like glitter. I can use that.
Bethany Valenti 33:00
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 33:00
And so it's a, it's also sort of like a gratitude practice, right? Like finding moments
Bethany Valenti 33:04
notice
Briania Davis 33:05
that, that make you smile
Bethany Valenti 33:06
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 33:08
and trying to hold that. Until the next one pops up, because
Bethany Valenti 33:14
Yeah.
Briania Davis 33:15
it's the good moments that get you through the bad ones. Um, and that was all, that was also, uh, a line in a movie. I forget what movie it was, but, and now I take that back. It was a movie with Ashton Kutcher Ashton. Ashton Kutcher and Brittany Murphy. That's where they got married and then got divorced. maybe it was called Just Married.
Bethany Valenti 33:41
I think it was just married, or is that Cameron Diaz and him, or was that I think No, I just married was the Brittany Murphy one.
Briania Davis 33:51
Yeah, so just married Ashton Kutcher's. Dad, at the end of the film showed pictures of their family
Bethany Valenti 33:59
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 34:00
and he was like, you're never gonna see bad moments in a photo. You're only gonna see good ones. It's the good ones that get you through the bad ones. And that has always stuck with me. I was like, you know, life lessons don't hit when you're younger until you're much older
Bethany Valenti 34:17
Yeah.
Briania Davis 34:17
in life. And I'm like, yes. You hardly ever see like pictures of like family fighting. They're always happy, smiley pictures or like happy moments. And so it's like we do that so much in social media because again, nobody is posting unhappy moments. We're posting happy things,
Bethany Valenti 34:37
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 34:38
already,
Bethany Valenti 34:39
like if we, if people are posting the non happy, there are people that are like, oh, like you get flack for that. There
Briania Davis 34:45
yes,
Bethany Valenti 34:46
know, it's so, it's not as welcomed.
Briania Davis 34:49
right. And so it's already ingrained in us to do that sort of compartmentalization.
Bethany Valenti 34:56
Right.
Briania Davis 34:57
But for whatever reason, when it comes to what feels like very hard things. We're not able to hold on to the good moments because we're so focused on negative or the bad moment. And I'm like, you can focus on all that if you want.
Bethany Valenti 35:13
Yeah.
Briania Davis 35:13
I said, because there are some people who are absolutely motivated by not so good experiences. It's like, I failed at that. Okay, so let me use that as fuel or fire to do better the next. Or I lost that race. Let me go train 10 times is harder. Or I didn't get an A on that paper, so let me study twice as harder. Some people are motivated
Bethany Valenti 35:37
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 35:37
by that. Not everybody is, you know, so trying to find the thing or several things that motivates people, it takes time, you know? So again, it kind of takes me back to pace and pause. Like people come in, they're like, okay, I wanna feel better. Go.
Bethany Valenti 35:54
Let's go. Yep. Make it happen
Briania Davis 35:57
I wanna be in here and outta here, and I need to feel better today.
Bethany Valenti 36:01
right now. Yep.
Briania Davis 36:02
Okay, well, what does better look like?
Bethany Valenti 36:04
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 36:06
What does happier look like? because it's a lot of work to be happy. It's a lot of work to want to do and be better and to grow.
Bethany Valenti 36:16
yeah,
Briania Davis 36:16
So as much as you want it to be a quick fix, Sally said it's not,
Bethany Valenti 36:23
Right.
Briania Davis 36:23
it's not.
Bethany Valenti 36:24
Well, one of the things that I also run into as well with it is I might have a sense of like, what. promote general, maybe happiness, like self-care, like those kinds of things. But there are things that are individual to the person about like what brings them joy. You know? Like I'm not just gonna be like, so go spend more time with your friends, you know what I mean? And be like, well, actually my friends are jerks, and that's the problem. Oh, okay. Thank you. Now let's back up and then, we'll, you know what I mean? Like if you want like quick solutions, usually the internet and people can give you that.
Briania Davis 37:01
Yes. ChatGPT is real good at giving you a lot of do, do, do, do, do
Bethany Valenti 37:07
Yep.
Briania Davis 37:08
without a whole lot of, you might want to or
Bethany Valenti 37:12
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 37:12
might run into,
Bethany Valenti 37:14
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 37:15
and so it's just, I giggle like on the inside and sometimes outside of is that what you thought therapy would look like?
Bethany Valenti 37:23
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 37:23
not saying that it's not because you could probably go find a solution focused therapist that is going to tell you what to do and how to do it, and they're going to tell you that it's going to yield X, Y, and Z.
Bethany Valenti 37:35
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 37:36
That's just not my style. Just like. Some people come in and think that they're gonna lay on the couch and I'm gonna sit up here and take notes, and then you're just gonna stare at the ceiling. That's all
Bethany Valenti 37:46
Yeah.
Briania Davis 37:46
about my style, but I'm sure there's someone out there that would probably still do that.
Bethany Valenti 37:51
Yeah.
Briania Davis 37:52
so like the first, the first part of therapy with me is honestly just getting to know them outside of the circumstances that bring them to me. You know? So, and you mentioned like what is joy to people? Like if that's one of their intentional goals, it's like, okay, so if you're not joyful or feeling a lot of joy now, what are you envisioning joy looks like? And I just did out with, a client a couple of days ago where we were doing a, I'm gonna mess up these letters. Rational emotive behavioral therapy, I think is what REBT stands for.
Bethany Valenti 38:31
Yep.
Briania Davis 38:32
we were doing the domain. Or thoughts, emotions and behaviors. What do they want more of and what do they want less of?
Bethany Valenti 38:40
Mm
Briania Davis 38:40
And they had shared that it was really easy for them to do what they don't want. And it was more challenging for them to write in what they do want.
Bethany Valenti 38:50
mm
Briania Davis 38:50
And that's usually the case with most people. Like if you ask people what their stress are, it's a struggle for some people. But if you ask what are some of their challenges or what do they wanna do better?
Bethany Valenti 39:01
Yeah.
Briania Davis 39:02
Give you a list of things.
Bethany Valenti 39:04
Yeah.
Briania Davis 39:05
And so I find that sometimes doing that exercise really puts people in a space of reflection of, I, I do know what I don't want because I'm experiencing a whole lot of what I don't want. So it's in my face constantly.
Bethany Valenti 39:21
Yeah.
Briania Davis 39:22
so it is a challenge to go through all of the mess through all of the weeks. What am I experiencing in my day to day that I wanna keep? I love my family. I love my job. I love my pets. I love my friends. I love these things. And if those are the things that you love, the bigger question, again, coming back to why, why are you not engaging in those things when you're experiencing these not so good things? So when you don't have a good day at work, why are you isolating? Why are you not talking to your spouse? Why are you not spending time with your friends? Why are you not spending time with your kids? You know, if you have dogs, why are you not taking your dogs outside to play? Just regular run of the mill things.
Bethany Valenti 40:04
Right.
Briania Davis 40:05
Then the thing that people always come back to with, I don't have time,
Bethany Valenti 40:08
Right.
Briania Davis 40:09
don't.
Bethany Valenti 40:10
But I'm also thinking about some of the, I know that you said you work a lot with people who are like always trying to be the good one. or like a lot of people pleasers and perfectionistic people, so there's the time part, I would also wonder if there's like, well, I don't have time because I'm giving it here
Briania Davis 40:33
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 40:34
elsewhere too. Right. I would sort of wonder, like the question is like, where's the time going? know?
Briania Davis 40:41
Yes. Where is it being divested to And yeah, there are a lot of people pleasers, which I'm still trying to find like a reframe for people pleaser
Bethany Valenti 40:53
Of what that means. Yeah.
Briania Davis 40:53
And I haven't really found one or it, the inspiration just really hasn't come, but a lot of people people wrap up, people pleasing tendency into wanting to be reliable, wanting to be dependable because there's a part somewhere in their lived experience where. They didn't have that person and they know what it's like to not have that person.
Bethany Valenti 41:19
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 41:20
And so they want to be that person to every single person that they encounter, sometimes even stranger.
Bethany Valenti 41:27
Mm.
Briania Davis 41:28
Um, and so when we're talking about where does the time go, it is much very, it is easily placed into other people and other things You know? So if acts of service is your primary love language it's going to be an innate behavior to be a people pleaser because that's how we give love or that's how we receive love and that's how we give it.
Bethany Valenti 41:51
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 41:52
so it's very much a part of who that person is and it's not necessarily about removing. Their desire or their want to be dependable. It's purely about reframing it and again, asking why you're doing it. Is it again, an expectation? Is it obligation? Is it so type it be manipulation? Absolutely. In the most unfortunate circumstances, but helping people understand why they're doing certain things can help them unlearn their general, their learned intentions, and then developing new intentions. And that is a, a common phrase that I use often is like, well, the behavior looks the same, but is your intention the same?
Bethany Valenti 42:40
Yeah.
Briania Davis 42:41
And most of the time as therapy progresses, the intention changes and then the conceptualization of the behavior changes. It's like, Right now it's, we're about to go into sort of like fall winter mode where most people tend to slow down. They tend to hibernate. Some people isolate.
Bethany Valenti 43:00
Yep.
Briania Davis 43:00
so for most people, that's just relaxation. It's just me taking time, taking time off. I'm okay with it. It's good. Self-care for other people doing those types of things, that they're lazy. That must mean that they're depressed. That must mean, I don't wanna spend time with people. I don't love anybody. I'm unlovable.
Bethany Valenti 43:20
Right.
Briania Davis 43:21
the act.
Bethany Valenti 43:21
like a definition because it's, it's stepping away from what feels like their go-to and what they have like, like seen as virtuous. Yeah.
Briania Davis 43:32
Yes. And so taking time for oneself can feel selfish in one regard. Very selfless in another. So helping people understand that obviously two things can exist at once, but that also doesn't mean that the negative one or the positive one of be, you know, black and white like that is good or bad. Sometimes being selfish is good because you're recognizing that you deserve more.
Bethany Valenti 44:03
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 44:04
And even when you do have an act selflessness, you're still choosing to do something that is still very much you.
Bethany Valenti 44:13
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 44:13
again, it's all about the intention. You know, if I get up at six 30 because I know that my 12 year old's gonna be anxious because it's picture day, I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna try to do all of these things to make sure that the mood or the vibe, you know, is what she needs to get up and feel like she can just kind of move through her morning with nothing to worry about, but also understanding. She could still wake up the same way she always wakes up.
Bethany Valenti 44:42
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 44:43
am I going to feel less appreciated if she wakes up grumpy or feel more appreciated if she wakes up happy?
Bethany Valenti 44:51
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 44:52
that sort of like self-examination of I didn't do any of this
Bethany Valenti 44:57
Yeah
Briania Davis 44:57
for me so why does it matter if she does or if she doesn't?
Bethany Valenti 45:01
yeah, Are you doing it for their response or are you doing it to support and it like, understandable that you would like to be appreciated sometimes, and if it's only for those things, then that might. Make a difference. 'cause sometimes you're not gonna get it,
Briania Davis 45:18
Absolutely. Yes. And that's where disappointment for people pleasers come in. It's like I did all these things for you and you don't appreciate it,
Bethany Valenti 45:27
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 45:28
but you keep doing it because you're still after that end result.
Bethany Valenti 45:32
Yep.
Briania Davis 45:32
being fawned over. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you,
Bethany Valenti 45:35
yeah,
Briania Davis 45:36
But also recognizing that that's temporary, going to
Bethany Valenti 45:39
your people are, are they ever like the, I want the appreciation, but they also can't take it like oh, no, no. Like really, like, cause
Briania Davis 45:48
a sprinkle.
Bethany Valenti 45:49
it's, it's like,
Briania Davis 45:50
A sprinkle
Bethany Valenti 45:51
the appreciation. I, I want it there, but I can't, I don't want it, I want like. The attention back on the other people, or no. Curious,
Briania Davis 46:01
My answer would probably be no, I don't think there is anybody that doesn't want it. I think the challenge becomes, once they get it, do they believe it?
Bethany Valenti 46:11
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Being able to Take it in. Yep.
Briania Davis 46:14
Yes. I think they enjoy hearing it. I think it makes them feel good,
Bethany Valenti 46:21
Yeah.
Briania Davis 46:21
but I also, I think there's a part of them that doesn't believe that their reaction is genuine because you're only appreciating me because I did the thing had I not done the thing. Would you still be saying what you're saying? it's like you do the thing to get the thing, and then you get the thing and then you still question.
Bethany Valenti 46:43
Yes, absolutely. doubt. There's so much doubt because it's like, while your identity is connected to caring for other people in terms of that people pleasing, like pleasing people, it might be connected to
Briania Davis 46:56
Right.
Bethany Valenti 46:56
pleasing people. but also like, is that all there is, know? And then what if that wasn't there, what would be, what would it be about me that you would care for?
Briania Davis 47:09
But that also goes into being wanted and being needed,
Bethany Valenti 47:13
Yep. Yeah,
Briania Davis 47:15
in order to people please, somebody has to meet. So it's almost like maybe internally, like always this constant seek and find, seek can find, seek can find. I have to have somebody in my life that's going to constantly feed me because I have a constant source
Bethany Valenti 47:33
yeah.
Briania Davis 47:34
to kind of feed that people pleasing needs and essentially like it grows, you know, the more you get it, the more you want it, the better it feels. The more you chase it. it's almost like it's own version of addiction or, you know, getting high. I feel
Bethany Valenti 47:49
Yes.
Briania Davis 47:49
good
Bethany Valenti 47:49
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 47:51
When somebody says. That they're thankful for me or that I came through at the last minute and they had asked all these other people and I was the only person that said, yes,
Bethany Valenti 47:59
Couldn't do this without you.
Briania Davis 48:00
yes, that one. I don't know where I'd be without you. and so I do think that there is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in thereof. This is the only reason people call me. This is the only,
Bethany Valenti 48:14
do. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 48:15
this is all I can give or, or the underpinning is this is all I'm worth.
Bethany Valenti 48:21
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 48:22
This is my value, this is my value to society, or to my family, or to my friends, or to my kid. But eventually what ends up happening end is at some point we are no longer needed, you know, empty nesters. What am I supposed to do? I have a couple of empty nesters right now, and they're like, I've spent the last 20, 25 years being a parent. Now what do I do? I have no idea.
48:52
Hey there. I just wanted to hop in and remind you that this episode is brought to you by me. I am a licensed psychologist. My practice is 100% virtual if you feel like I would be a good fit for what you're looking for. I also have PSYPACT, and I can see clients in 43 states. I do offer free consultations that last about 15 to 20 minutes if you want to have a conversation about whether we could be a good fit to working together. So let me make sure you know where to find me. You can go to my website at bethanyvalenti.com. B-E-T-H-A-N-Y V-A-L-E-N-T-I.com. My website and other information, including social media links, can be found in the show notes, as well as our guest information. So take a look if you're interested. All right, back to the episode.
Briania Davis 49:44
I'm not there.
Bethany Valenti 49:45
Is that the invisible element? Because I know that, you know, you chatted with me off mic about how people pleasing and perfectionism can leave you feeling invisible. how do you feel like the invisible part comes in?
Briania Davis 49:57
The invisible piece comes in with not knowing who they are, not knowing themselves outside of,
Bethany Valenti 50:04
of what I was picturing. Yeah. Of like, now what? Like who am
Briania Davis 50:06
yes, who am I? And to me, that's a really loaded question because it's never, in my opinion, or at least from like observation,
Bethany Valenti 50:15
I was just like, oops.
Briania Davis 50:17
it's never that clients don't know who they are. It's just now there is a redefinition of who I am without or alongside this thing.
Bethany Valenti 50:30
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 50:30
and I think we go through that throughout periods of our lives. We don't really recognize it as a redefinition. and the examples that I always give, which is very much who I am as a person, are always sports related, because that was my whole entire identity growing up.
Bethany Valenti 50:46
Yeah.
Briania Davis 50:46
I played sports up until I was 25. And so when you no longer have the thing that essentially has defined your entire life, value, worth, accolades, applause, praise, and you don't have that thing anymore, what are my hobbies? What are my interests? What do I enjoy doing? What, what will I spend my time doing?
Bethany Valenti 51:10
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 51:11
And that was a very hard question for me. And I also find that it's a very hard question for my clients, but I think the part where we kind of differ is that I didn't choose to stop playing sports. I got hurt. I was put in a position to where I could have tried, which hindsight, 2020. I wish I would've tried, but my pride and my ego wouldn't let me, because if I couldn't do the thing I wanted to do, the way I wanted to do, I just wasn't gonna do it at all.
Bethany Valenti 51:42
Then why bother? Yeah.
Briania Davis 51:44
So I had to
Bethany Valenti 51:45
Can't do it to my usual standard. Not even gonna,
Briania Davis 51:48
the perfectionism with me is showing up, which is why it's my favorite population.
Bethany Valenti 51:52
Your perfectionism is showing.
Briania Davis 51:54
Yeah, it's glowing, bright, and beaming. And so I was like, I have to find something else to, to be great at. I have to find something else that's going to be equally or more fulfilling than the thing that I feel like I just lost. And that's when the field came in. But obviously, you know, anybody who's been through grad school knows that you're learning all of these things, but you're also put in a position to learn about yourself.
Bethany Valenti 52:22
Yeah.
Briania Davis 52:23
So I had this. Experience of really being forced, again, external factors into doing this self-discovery. That's not everybody's experience. Once your life circumstances change, you either choose to or you don't. Because I was in grad school, it was part of our assignments. It was almost like part of our requirement, like, who are you as a person? How do you see your career developing? What population do you wanna work with? Through all of that, I figured out to some degree who I was and who I wanted to be, and the person that I was becoming. And that's part of the, I guess honestly like the clinical journey that I take all of my clients on, like this has been you for the last 20 years.
Bethany Valenti 53:10
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 53:11
How much of that do you wanna keep? How much of that do you wanna let go? And in the process of letting go, how much of that are you going to mourn and grieve? Because there is a mourning and grieving period of. Who you used to be.
Bethany Valenti 53:24
Yeah. I love that. Yeah.
Briania Davis 53:26
And so we do go through a little bit of it's okay to miss that person. I definitely missed 22-year-old Briania
Bethany Valenti 53:36
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 53:37
was wild. but she was fun, she was bubbly. There was a,
Bethany Valenti 53:41
She was doing some stuff
Briania Davis 53:42
she was doing some things and I look back again now at 42 going, I don't think I appreciated, I don't think I appreciated her the way that she deserved it.
Bethany Valenti 53:54
Mm.
Briania Davis 53:55
'cause I,
Bethany Valenti 53:55
At the time?
Briania Davis 53:56
At the time, because I can still hear in my head like all the things I was complaining about, being 22, being in college, doing all the things that typical college kids do and go through. And now at 42 I'm like, if I could go back, I don't think I would make any different decisions, but I think I would definitely have more appreciation for. The life that I had at the time, the freedom that I had, the aloofness of being a young adult in the early two thousands. And I listened to, I think he's a psychologist or he just, or he might be a psychiatrist. He was talking about how millennials now have sort of like this nostalgia for like the early two thousands. 'cause life was simpler and we, and we miss when life was simpler.
Bethany Valenti 54:46
Yeah.
Briania Davis 54:47
And I'm like, yes, I do. Miss, life was simpler. Not to say that I don't love my life now, but I wasn't married, I didn't have kids, I didn't have a house, didn't have a career.
Bethany Valenti 54:58
There's less to manage.
Briania Davis 54:59
I, I just couldn't do whatever I wanted. Like yes, I definitely miss the freedom of what feels like choice.
Bethany Valenti 55:08
Yeah.
Briania Davis 55:08
I said, but I wouldn't do anything different because it made to be right where I'm at. And there were lessons along the way that if I had not had them, I may not be where or who I am now. And there's value in that, that statement of, I don't think I appreciated 22-year-old me like I should have.
Bethany Valenti 55:30
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 55:31
she knew things, but she didn't believe things. It was like, you're 2022, what do you know? You haven't lived life yet,
Bethany Valenti 55:40
Mm.
Briania Davis 55:41
but 22 years of life you've lived a, a life. You've learned some things, you know some things about you, but you're not confident in knowing those things. And I think that's the mourning and grieving piece that comes, is just simply recognizing that you know more about you than,
Bethany Valenti 56:01
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 56:02
than you think you do. And we have to find some element of acceptance. And this is very much who you are. I've always been sort of like what you mentioned, my perfectionism showing. I've always been that way. But it shows up differently as I've gotten older. Perfectionism, very much sports oriented
Bethany Valenti 56:22
Right.
Briania Davis 56:23
until I stopped playing. And then before it became about perfect grades 4.0, all as on, on all the things
Bethany Valenti 56:30
Yeah.
Briania Davis 56:31
post grad school, being the best intern, associate, clinician I could be. Do all your notes on the right time, get all the positive feedback, and it stinks. That hurts when you get corrective feedback because you dunno what you're doing.
Bethany Valenti 56:43
yeah, yeah.
Briania Davis 56:44
you know, and so it just, it changes and evolves over time.
Bethany Valenti 56:50
thinking that when you first said that it hit you, I was like, yeah, it evolves with you as your life changes.
Briania Davis 56:55
Yes. And so looking at it as a deficit. Has never helped or suited me in any type of space. And when I have just accepted like, yep, this is the way your brain works, this is the way you see things, this is the way it makes you behave, and this is kind of the impact that it has on the things around you. If you don't like the impact, then you have to change the intention.
Bethany Valenti 57:20
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 57:20
now when I work with my clients, whether it's perfectionism, being good one, anxiety and visibility, to some degree, they're all superpowers. It helps define you as a person. It just hasn't served you well. And once we can reframe and create a more helpful and beneficial intention.
Bethany Valenti 57:44
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 57:44
way you see what used to be a deficit has now become a strength. And again, we'll go back to Marvel comics. I always reference Tony Stark because in the first Iron Man, he has to build a whole thing in his chest.
Bethany Valenti 57:58
Yep,
Briania Davis 57:59
He built that in a cave,
Bethany Valenti 58:00
he did. He got it done.
Briania Davis 58:02
know what I'm saying? Like he built it in a cave. And then once he got into like his big Tony Stark expansion thing, like he made all these other ones.
Bethany Valenti 58:09
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 58:10
So we are not incapable
Bethany Valenti 58:12
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 58:12
of creating with very little,
Bethany Valenti 58:15
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 58:16
and sometimes it's the little things that we create that then lead to bigger impact. So if you can accept that for 20 years you've been a parent, you've been dependable, you've been reliable, you helped grow this whole person into this independent person who's just out here crushing,
Bethany Valenti 58:34
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 58:36
we can say you did what you intended to do. You have the relationship with your kids or your adult children that you want. And just like you have to kind of go out and find your life separate from your parents, you're now passing that on to your kids. You're letting them also go and find your, find their lives. But I guess the different part for, I guess as us as parents, or at least for me when that time comes, I feel like I already have an identity separate from parenthood. 'cause I have my field. I have my job, I have my career.
Bethany Valenti 59:12
Yeah.
Briania Davis 59:13
I feel like I have something to kind of sit back and go. I can kind of fill my time, but there's still going to be this longing-ness for parenting. But again, parenting shifts, you know, when they're infants, it doesn't look like they're toddlers. When they're toddlers, it's not the same when they're children.
Bethany Valenti 59:32
Yep.
Briania Davis 59:32
So again, we're just kind of going through like this evolutionary period and I think people feel like. When we hit a certain phase in life that we're stuck, when we're not. It's, it's just changing and change is inevitable. And if you can accept that change happens every single second of every single day, it, in my opinion, it makes it a little bit easier to take in visible, noticeable change, because I think I've made this comparison before with like family members. Like, if you haven't seen my daughter in a year, the last image that you have of her compared to now, she's gonna look bigger, she's gonna look older, she's gonna look taller. You can see a physical change in her. But me looking at her every single day, I still see the little baby in her, but I still see her at 12. I'm like,
Bethany Valenti 1:00:25
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:00:26
you're not little anymore, but you're also not big. You're still little.
Bethany Valenti 1:00:29
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:00:30
it's hard to see how much she's grown, like physically, emotionally, cognitively, like all those things. But I recognize that in moments when she says things like, I don't think he talked to her the right way. And if I were her, I wouldn't take up for that. I would just leave him. I'm like, yes, yes. You're absolutely right. You do not allow anybody to talk to you like that,
Bethany Valenti 1:00:55
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:00:56
you know? And I'll have moments, I'm like, is that me? Is that you? Is that
Bethany Valenti 1:01:00
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:01:01
where is the influence coming from? And I'm like,
Bethany Valenti 1:01:04
nature? Where's the nurture?
Briania Davis 1:01:06
yes. And I'm just like, okay. Like we're, we're doing the things. And those are when I see like her biggest growth point is like when things like that happen. And I'm like, yeah.
Bethany Valenti 1:01:17
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:01:19
And so I can only imagine like, that's what it feels like for Just anybody going through some sort of transitional period of I know where I've been, I know what I've been doing,
Bethany Valenti 1:01:30
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:01:30
now I'm concerned or scared
Bethany Valenti 1:01:32
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:01:32
about what happens next. Because what if I'm not good enough? What if I don't do it well? Because I'll be honest, I just had a conversation with a stranger really? But it was a place of business.
Bethany Valenti 1:01:44
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:01:45
we were talking about the changes in like the grocery store, like when they move certain products,
Bethany Valenti 1:01:52
Yes.
Briania Davis 1:01:53
you know what I mean? Or when they, when there's no building, but now all of a sudden there's a building and then the road tank.
Bethany Valenti 1:02:00
Yep. Yep.
Briania Davis 1:02:01
You at a certain age, you're like, can things just stay the same? I don't wanna learn a new thing.
Bethany Valenti 1:02:07
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:02:08
And I think it's a little bit of that. It's like I've grown comfortable
Bethany Valenti 1:02:12
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:02:12
with what I've been doing and with where I'm at, and I like the way my life looks, but then. For certain people that transitional care, like it shakes up the foundation of, I don't know what my routine is. I don't know where my place is, I don't know where I belong. I have a lot of clients will say, I don't know where I fit.
Bethany Valenti 1:02:30
Yeah,
Briania Davis 1:02:31
And I'm like,
Bethany Valenti 1:02:32
And just like that, that hits. I'm just like, yeah.
Briania Davis 1:02:36
and I say to myself quietly, I remember what it was like to not fit in. But I think at a certain point too, it's like fit into what?
Bethany Valenti 1:02:46
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:02:47
A box, A mold, a stereotype,
Bethany Valenti 1:02:50
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:02:50
an old, an old version of yourself that you're not anymore. And now we have to be inauthentic and we have to wear a mask.
Bethany Valenti 1:02:59
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:03:00
You know? Again, who wants to do that all day? Pretend.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:04
tiring. Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:03:05
pretend, and granted, like when we were kids, pretending was fun, pretending to be a grownup, like have real responsibilities,
Bethany Valenti 1:03:13
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:03:14
you know what I'm saying? Like that was fun. But pretending now is very different. Like you are having to shield and quiet and sit down and shut up and types of things where it's like, no, I want, I have an opinion, I have a perspective, I have a thought.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:32
Mm.
Briania Davis 1:03:33
But there is a, a lack of safety and security with sharing those things. And again, coming back to the big question, why if you don't feel safe and secure in the group that you're in to share your opinion and you don't feel like there's going to be some level of understanding or some level of empathy, or maybe even curiosity, maybe not even empathy or, or sympathetic, but just curiosity of. That's an interesting point. Can you explain more? if there's none of that, are you in a space that you should continue to be in? And again, it comes back to people feeling comfortable with where they are.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:14
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:04:15
I've had clients who have been friends with what they call mean people for like 30 plus years. Well, if she's not my friend, then what? That's a legit question. If she's not your friend, then what?
Bethany Valenti 1:04:28
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:04:29
Well, I don't know how to make friends. I don't think we knew how to make friends when we were kids. It was called proximity, in my opinion. Proximity relationships.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:37
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:04:38
play the same sport. I do automatically. We're going to hang out until we don't like each other.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:42
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:04:43
you know, it's almost the same thing, like at work. You know, I don't wanna say that every coworker becomes a friend, but there is a likeness, some level of comfort with being able to talk to somebody else.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:54
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:04:55
We do have the ability to establish relationships, but I think what people are really after is connection. The same type of connection that allows us to feel safe and secure with sharing maybe the not so pleasant parts of us and feeling comforted and reassured that it's okay that we feel that way because other people feel similar or somewhat close to the same things. And I'm often hearing that too. It's like, I don't know if other people feel this way. I, and I feel like it's just me. And sometimes I'm like, no, it's not just you. A lot of people feel that way, but there is a isolation against a collusion that happens when you have those thoughts because anxiety or depression or trauma will tell you that it's safer to stay quiet.
Bethany Valenti 1:05:47
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:05:48
Almost like on, or not Anna, but almost like Elsa, don't feel it. Don't let it show.
Bethany Valenti 1:05:54
Right?
Briania Davis 1:05:54
If you don't let people see it, people will think you're fine and they won't treat you different. But the sort of like analogy that I use is that when you "hulk out" and you get angry and you treat people, it backs people up. But if you cry, kind of fold in on yourself, it brings people closer.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:12
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:06:13
some people are afraid of physical touch, but it's also their primary love language that they want to held. But there is also a lack of safety and be held because we're concerned of at some point it'll go away.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:30
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:06:31
Well, well,
Bethany Valenti 1:06:32
vulnerable. It's scary.
Briania Davis 1:06:34
Am I too much? That's another thing I often hear.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:37
Am
Briania Davis 1:06:37
I'm too much.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:38
and that's, I. Since the K-pop demon hunters, have you seen
Briania Davis 1:06:43
I love that.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:44
Yes. The Zoey moment where she's, where she has her like fear thought go across, and when, he says, you're too much and not enough. I feel like I related to that so deeply as a person, but I feel like the people that you're describing, that you like to work with, that would connect with them as well of, I'm trying to do everything for everyone, but like, I'm afraid of being too much myself of this piece of me who, who I don't even know who it is. Like a away from being of service to someone else.
Briania Davis 1:07:17
Yes, absolutely. And they do feel that way. And it is a, it's another one of those two things can be true at once.
Bethany Valenti 1:07:26
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:07:28
feel like I'm too much and I can also feel like I'm not doing enough. And that kind of breeds again, sort of like that perfect storm of perfectionism. If I could just find the right balance,
Bethany Valenti 1:07:41
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:07:42
it'll be perfect and I'll be perfect and everything will just be sunshine and rainbows and I'll never feel disappointed or abandoned or unloved again. And I think chasing perfectionism, again, it's not a bad thing. I think it's important to identify what perfectionistic looks like
Bethany Valenti 1:08:04
Right?
Briania Davis 1:08:05
for a person. And if that means every time your best friend Jessica calls you, show up on her front doorstep. Okay, cool. If that's what it looks like, can you do that? You might be able to do it if Jessica lives 15 minutes away, but can you do it if Jessica lives in Idaho?
Bethany Valenti 1:08:23
Can you do it? If you have a newborn,
Briania Davis 1:08:24
Right. Are there, is there room for flexibility in what feels like perfectionism? And for most people trying to identify sort of like it's my Dave Matthews quote, the space in between. It's kind of like the space exists, but I'm afraid to put something there because what if it's wrong?
Bethany Valenti 1:08:46
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:08:47
And I'm like, why do we have to put anything there anyway? That's why it's called a space in between. We need to have room to breathe.
Bethany Valenti 1:08:55
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:08:56
need time for you. And if you honestly feel like you can't give yourself an hour,
Bethany Valenti 1:09:03
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:09:03
it's just start with five minutes can 'cause I'll be honest, I feel like all adults over 35 do this right after they get off work. They will sit in their car, scroll on their phone, listen to music, but I don't know what we're doing. I know what I'm doing.
Bethany Valenti 1:09:17
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:09:19
We kind of just sit in the car and we decompress. Some of that time we're thinking about the stuff that we have to do when we get in the house. Sometimes we're thinking about the things that we just did. Sometimes we're internally screaming just 'cause we got to get the rage out.
Bethany Valenti 1:09:36
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:09:37
But there's something in that moment that is very telling. It's the body, in my opinion, it's the body's version of saying I'm burnt. I had somebody tell me that they felt like burnt toast the other day.
Bethany Valenti 1:09:51
mm,
Briania Davis 1:09:52
In my head I'm like, how burnt is burnt? Because I like toasty toast.
Bethany Valenti 1:09:57
right?
Briania Davis 1:09:58
Not black, but you know, a little brown, little charred.
Bethany Valenti 1:10:00
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:10:01
And so
Bethany Valenti 1:10:02
good flavors, you
Briania Davis 1:10:03
you know, saying like, yes, like gimme some of that. But at the same time, like you recognize that there is a threshold for you with certain things. In terms of perfectionism, like perfectionism will push a person to the brink and then past that. But if you go past that, I think the bigger part of that is what is it going to cost you?
Bethany Valenti 1:10:27
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:10:28
it going to cost you time? You know, if you're an entrepreneur, is it gonna cost you money? is it gonna cost you your family? Is it gonna cost you your relationship? And your relationship can be multiple things. It could be kids, it could be your spouse, it could be relationship with yourself, because we kind of get lost in the void of things because you're trying to chase this indescribable, unidentified vision that you have that you can't truly describe because it's more of a feeling
Bethany Valenti 1:10:57
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:10:58
and if it really is a feeling. Have you ever felt it? Has it ever just felt like. Just right. Almost like, uh, the three little bears. It's too hot, too old, just right. Have you ever had an experience in your life where it just felt right? Most people can hit one, maybe childhood, maybe young adulthood, maybe later in life, but there's usually one moment where it's like, complete silence. Nothing's up here, nothing's happening. And you're kind of in the moment taking it all in. And if we can harness that moment, almost like fuel, then we have something to kind of stand on. We have a moment that is not something that I have manufactured and convinced you that you have felt and that you have, it's a memory that you can pull from because you're the only one that felt it and experienced it. And that becomes sort of the example, not the standard. But just an example, sometimes it's when they fell in love. It's like, I knew it. That's my person. We're gonna get married. It's
Bethany Valenti 1:12:05
Hmm.
Briania Davis 1:12:06
yes. Or you know, the moment somebody found out they were pregnant or the moment they delivered their child, or the moment they got the promotion that they fought hard for and was well deserved. You know what I mean? Like, there's always something. You hit the game winning buzzer or you catch the game winning touchdown and you win the championship and the town goes crazy.
Bethany Valenti 1:12:26
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:12:27
Whatever it is, there is something that you felt like you fought for that you earned it, and you got it and let's kind of hang in that feeling and kind of swim in all of that. And then let's give language to it. Let's give words to it and then if we can give language and words to it. Then to me that means we can make a plan for it. That means we can implement certain things that you've already done that you have again, successful. And that means that whatever we're after now, it'll probably look different because you are a different person now, the circumstances are different, but the goal or the thing that we're after is not necessarily the visual, it's the feeling, it's the experience.
Bethany Valenti 1:13:13
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:13:14
because that seems to be the thing that the younger kids are all about. I need an experience. I need there to be a vibe.
Bethany Valenti 1:13:20
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:13:21
The vibe is off. I, I need language to what you mean when you say the vibe.
Bethany Valenti 1:13:27
What vibe are we searching for
Briania Davis 1:13:29
Yes. But again, like if you know what you're after or if you've seen it or something like that, once you have it, it's like, yes. That's what I'm after. there was something that we were watching over the weekend. I was like, yes, I could totally get with that.
Bethany Valenti 1:13:47
Hmm.
Briania Davis 1:13:47
it was probably something outdoors. I'm really into the outdoors right now. I just kind of wanna get lost.
Bethany Valenti 1:13:52
Totally fair
Briania Davis 1:13:52
what it was. they had booked this, this cabin in the woods. Like it was very snowy.
Bethany Valenti 1:13:59
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:13:59
And I was like, I like snow, I like the cabin. but I'm like, how long are we gonna be here? Like, questions, just questions. And I said, no question. You liked what you said or, I liked what I saw. I liked the way it made me feel. That's what I need to do. I need to just go to a cabin in the woods with or without snow. It's not really important, but it's just
Bethany Valenti 1:14:22
the snow. The snow is optional.
Briania Davis 1:14:24
the snow is optional. Just away from sort of like the digital world, just. You know, time away to just kind of be with oneself.
Bethany Valenti 1:14:33
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:14:34
And there have been times where I've kind of just been out and about
Bethany Valenti 1:14:39
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:14:40
and I'm like, yes. it's almost like when people say, if I could bottle that, I'd make a million dollars. That feeling, if I could find a way not to sell it, that's not what I'm asking. But if I could find it and hold onto it for myself, the noise that kind of spins and chatters in my own head was sort of like my own perfection of a tendency. I feel like to some degree I would be unstoppable because I would be able to push and pull things. Almost like matrix style.
Bethany Valenti 1:15:10
Right.
Briania Davis 1:15:11
It's just like, yes, girl scootch. Ooh, we're just kind of swimming through these thoughts and so let me just get what I need and lemme just keep moving.
Bethany Valenti 1:15:22
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:15:23
in some ways, in some form. I can do that. It's almost like a billboard. Yeah. I'm gonna keep that thought. I don't need that. but there are moments like where a lot of clients feel like it's just hitting them like a tidal wave from left to right, it one issue after another. And it is kind of hard to kind of catch those moments. The sparkle was kind of like what we were talking about before.
Bethany Valenti 1:15:47
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:15:47
what I try to highlight to them is that some of those are not going to be visual. Sometimes you're gonna have to pull from past experiences. You're gonna have to pull from your own thoughts. You're gonna have to find something internal that's going to drive you, make you giggle, make you cry, something that's going to internally motivate you. And there's a, I don't know if it's the most therapeutically sound thing I've ever said, but when clients are, when they struggle to express. Sadness or like tears. I'm like, so does that mean that like you've never cried? Like, no, I've cried before. I'm like, when? Why? What are we crying about? And they're like, well, you know, I watched this movie and it was sad. So is it possible that we can utilize the sad movies that make you cry, to help you release the emotions that you're feeling?
Bethany Valenti 1:16:41
Get it out. Yep.
Briania Davis 1:16:42
Get it out. But it's not metaphorically like on the surface, it's not about you, it's about the show. So like we're tricking the brain into just simply feeling an emotion,
Bethany Valenti 1:16:52
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:16:52
anchored in whatever's causing us to feel sad.
Bethany Valenti 1:16:56
I've had clients who have like sad song playlists, like crying playlists, you
Briania Davis 1:17:00
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 1:17:01
like this is what I put on when I need to cry.
Briania Davis 1:17:03
Yes. I've even suggested that in terms of like, like anxiety playlists. Like if you have a speech that you need to give or a presentation that you have to give or just something things will make you anxious. Like play the thing, have the freak out, like go through all of the motions. It's almost like speed the process up, like get it out. That's not to say that you're still not going to feel anxious when you're doing the thing, but there's also a motivational speaker for sure. It's a guy where he says,
Bethany Valenti 1:17:34
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:17:34
can do, I can do hard things. I can do this thing and still be scared. And I'm like, yeah, I guess I can do scared things and I can do hard things. I didn't know how to be a parent before I was a parent, but here I am parenting.
Bethany Valenti 1:17:50
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:17:51
I didn't know how to be a therapist before I was a therapist, but here I am doing therapy and I always come back to this one too, is I think it's Sister Act two, where Whoopi Goldberg's character is talking to Lauren Hill's character and she's referencing. But she's telling her that if she wakes up every day and all she wants to do is sing that she's supposed to be a singer.
Bethany Valenti 1:18:14
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:18:15
It wasn't the fact that she sing that made her a singer. It's the fact that she believed that she could sing. And I often come back to that thought where somebody told me the same thing, but it was about therapy. It was like passing your, 'cause I was struggling with passing the exam. She said, passing that exam does not make you a therapist. What makes you a therapist is the work that you're doing with your clients.
Bethany Valenti 1:18:39
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:18:40
I was like, so you're saying already a therapist?
Bethany Valenti 1:18:42
like tell like you, you're going off of like what legally gives you the piece of paper
Briania Davis 1:18:47
Yes.
Bethany Valenti 1:18:48
it. Yes. Yeah. You're already a therapist. You just need to be able to do it by yourself.
Briania Davis 1:18:54
And I think that that was a hard concept
Bethany Valenti 1:18:56
Hmm.
Briania Davis 1:18:57
to believe that I've been doing therapy as a student intern.
Bethany Valenti 1:19:04
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:19:04
an associate, then you've been doing therapy, so whether, so whether or not that thing says that you passed, you are still doing therapy and
Bethany Valenti 1:19:16
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:19:16
is what makes at the time anyway, the way I thought about it was I am a therapist and it still baffles me almost 10 years later that I'm doing what I'm doing. People ask me for essentially my opinions and my feedback and they listen.
Bethany Valenti 1:19:37
What is that?
Briania Davis 1:19:38
I said me,
Bethany Valenti 1:19:40
I
Briania Davis 1:19:41
the person who still considers her father, the only adult in her life, and when someone asks me an adult question, I'm like, I gotta go to the adult.
Bethany Valenti 1:19:51
yeah,
Briania Davis 1:19:52
I'm, I am, I am not.
Bethany Valenti 1:19:54
someone post like years ago where it was like, at some point, you know, the instructions that used to say when you were younger, especially, I remember this from the nineties, so much of like, if you run into this, go find a grownup or whatever. It's like, oh my God, they're gonna, they would come find me like, that's me now.
Briania Davis 1:20:09
I'm not, I tell all of my clients regardless of age, I said, I'm not an adult. I'm just gonna go ahead and preface it. Um, I'm not an adult. If you ask me about taxes, if you ask me about 4 0 1 ks, if,
Bethany Valenti 1:20:24
Mm.
Briania Davis 1:20:26
to me, like that would, if I could figure that stuff out, I feel like I would be closer to being an adult. I,
Bethany Valenti 1:20:33
a hundred percent. You're just like almost there. Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:20:35
I'm almost there. 'cause again, there are other things that I feel like would essentially make me an adult and I'm not there. and there was an example the other day where, somebody had asked me a question, I was like. I don't, I, I don't, I don't know. I dunno. I dunno,
Bethany Valenti 1:20:54
my God, that's so relatable. Like, I dunno.
Briania Davis 1:20:56
I dunno. I, and sometimes like inside thought, people ask me question, like, you should probably talk somebody,
Bethany Valenti 1:21:03
somebody. Yeah. I literally get there, be like, yeah, this is really rough. Like they really need to get some help for this. You should talk to a professional about this
Briania Davis 1:21:16
ah, what's the good one? Um, and
Bethany Valenti 1:21:18
sitting in therapy.
Briania Davis 1:21:20
yeah, and I'm like, girl, they're talking to you,
Bethany Valenti 1:21:22
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:21:23
So it's almost like that very twilight moment. Like
Bethany Valenti 1:21:26
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:21:27
you are the person that you, I don't wanna say wanted to be, but sort of, I have always been for other people.
Bethany Valenti 1:21:36
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:21:36
and it's granted, yes, it's a very different chair that I sit in now for all intents and purposes.
Bethany Valenti 1:21:43
Right.
Briania Davis 1:21:44
But the environment that I try to create is very much friendship quality. And I just had a conversation with my students this Tuesday. Yes. So yesterday
Bethany Valenti 1:21:58
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:21:58
had supervision. It was just like, yes, this is very much a client therapeutic relationship, just like doctor patient relationships. I said, but aside from like the doctor patient relationship, like we're getting to know the ins and outs of people's lives.
Bethany Valenti 1:22:15
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:22:16
There's no way, or at least for me, I can't, I can't know those things and for some reason not form some sort of attachment. Like I do care about all of my clients in very different ways, but the way I care for them doesn't look or mirror or anything like my husband or my kid or my parents or anything like that. But it very much is a. Relational relationship where it's like, gosh, like yeah, that's hard. I get, I totally get what you're saying. And yeah, it sucks. And oftentimes it's just like, I can't imagine I said that yesterday with my, I honestly, I have never been in that position and I just, I can't imagine how hard
Bethany Valenti 1:23:02
Yeah,
Briania Davis 1:23:02
it would be if I were in that position. And part of that is almost like heartbreaking to hear like what they share in session
Bethany Valenti 1:23:15
yeah.
Briania Davis 1:23:15
and know that to some degree, like you can't really do anything about the position that you're in. And the only therapeutic thing that you can provide is support space.
Bethany Valenti 1:23:27
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:23:28
And that is sort of like the bread and butter of our field is simply.
Bethany Valenti 1:23:33
the work that we do,
Briania Davis 1:23:34
Building a rapport, safety securities, holding the container, you know, for our clients to, again, say all the quiet things out loud and to feel like they're being heard and to feel like they're being seen, but also help them realize that they are more than their circumstances. 'cause probably one of the books I read where it says Nothing is permanent, everything is temporary.
Bethany Valenti 1:24:00
Mm.
Briania Davis 1:24:01
And I'm like, yes, true.
Bethany Valenti 1:24:05
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:24:05
the things that are temporary, feel
Bethany Valenti 1:24:08
It can feel permanent.
Briania Davis 1:24:10
long, feel so
Bethany Valenti 1:24:12
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:24:12
it's like you're tread again. You're running in place and not going
Bethany Valenti 1:24:15
Yes. Yes.
Briania Davis 1:24:17
And so how does one recognize that the circumstances that you're in, I do not have to remain here. But The circumstances that I'm in also do not give me the, or equip me with the ability to get out
Bethany Valenti 1:24:33
Yeah. Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:24:35
and therapy. Sometimes it can provide tools because very much be a vehicle to get people out of circumstances. Like if there is a, this is not my population, but it used to be women who were coming in from domestic violence situations, not knowing what their options are, not knowing that there are EPOS or IPOs or the women's shelter or you know, these types of things. Sometimes it's just pure access
Bethany Valenti 1:25:03
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:25:04
that is the most helpful for a lot of clients. People who find themselves houseless don't always know that there are housing programs. You just have to go through the program. and there are programs for Young ladies who are 16 and pregnant, there are programs for women who find themselves houseless with an infant and no job. And it's just like sometimes the only thing that I can provide people is not skills, just information, but in terms of giving them information. I'm also not writing them a prescription and saying, Hey, go do these things. Life will be great.
Bethany Valenti 1:25:41
yeah,
Briania Davis 1:25:42
here are the tools, or here's the resources that I have access to. Let's make some phone calls. Let's reach out to some people.
Bethany Valenti 1:25:49
yeah,
Briania Davis 1:25:50
me call some people. Let me see if I can't find you a person to call to speak with, because who wants to call and have, leave a voicemail and wait two weeks before somebody gets back to you?
Bethany Valenti 1:26:00
I totally hear that. Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:26:02
And so again, sometimes it's the most therapeutic thing I could do for some clients is just to provide them access. Information, information, but then that goes back to sort of the sentiment of before of is that enough?
Bethany Valenti 1:26:15
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:26:15
do enough? and the other thing too is do I have enough time? Do they have enough time? How dire is their situation? Because they may, going back into that home and I'm going to my house where I feel safe and I feel secure,
Bethany Valenti 1:26:33
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:26:33
they're going home and they feel scared. And if the person that they're with really doesn't want them to leave and they find my name or the paper that I have given them, that becomes, I mean, the harm. And it's like,
Bethany Valenti 1:26:47
layer. Yep. Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:26:49
and so there's a, a level of cautiousness that has to sort of peter, you know, with all of that. And so it's just like the job is hard, just like life is hard.
Bethany Valenti 1:27:01
Just like life is hard. I feel like I could talk to you about this forever. Like I get to listen to you. I can talk to you forever.
Briania Davis 1:27:09
Yeah,
Bethany Valenti 1:27:10
no, I, I love this. I so
Briania Davis 1:27:12
forever. Everything's temporary.
Bethany Valenti 1:27:14
Yep. Everything's temporary. Just doesn't always feel like it. That's the takeaway. Um, are you up for our wrap up questions?
Briania Davis 1:27:24
absolutely.
Bethany Valenti 1:27:24
Absolutely. Okay. where are you licensed? I know you're licensed at a few places.
Briania Davis 1:27:29
I hold my license in Kentucky, Indiana, and Ohio.
Bethany Valenti 1:27:33
Very nice. do you have openings?
Briania Davis 1:27:36
I do, I do, I do. Um, it really, I guess that's the other part too, that we're in the season of where holiday grief, holiday before, just all the popping up.
Bethany Valenti 1:27:47
coming. Yep.
Briania Davis 1:27:48
So the availability is there. It just may be limited based off of the time of day that clients need or the clients need. but there is availability for sure.
Bethany Valenti 1:28:00
Okay. And you mentioned REBT earlier, is that your theoretical, your primary theoretical orientation, or do you have a different one
Briania Davis 1:28:07
that one. Yes. It's very much integrative, collaborative, holistic with the H and the W. 'cause I like, for whatever reason, I like the way it looks with the w, not so much
Bethany Valenti 1:28:20
yes. Yeah, because that's what we're talking about.
Briania Davis 1:28:23
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 1:28:24
Yeah. The whole person. Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:28:26
The whole person. And they're like, why is there w I'm like, girl, ask questions. Just
Bethany Valenti 1:28:31
Stop.
Briania Davis 1:28:32
take it in and just realize that I'm focused on,
Bethany Valenti 1:28:34
Let it connect. Let it resonate.
Briania Davis 1:28:36
yes. So like
Bethany Valenti 1:28:39
is showing.
Briania Davis 1:28:40
it's because it's, it's, but I think like if I had to like, there again, my brain works in very much a sequential order.
Bethany Valenti 1:28:48
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:28:49
Um, it starts out the same way. It's very much Tell me your story, which is very narrative based. And then after that, it's very much like motivational interviewing. Tell me the things that motivate you, your learning style, how have you learned, how do things change as you get older? And then eventually we kind of settle into a very client-centered cognitive behavioral type of space where I'm really trying to understand how you make decisions, what challenges you have with decision making. Once you make a decision, how do you then move forward like behaviorally with it? But I think the, I guess like the underpinning of really all of that is some form of like neurolinguistics, linguistic, I like the word choice. Kind of like what we were talking about before, like want
Bethany Valenti 1:29:38
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:29:39
and have to, it's like, what do you mean when you say that? Because it really does help me understand all of the other components that come with all the other theoretical models. And then at some point you really do move into. Like solution focus, like alright, we have a really good foundation of where the challenges are, where the holes are, where things are working. Let's find a way to kind of put those things together to start, implementing some truth. And then once we kind of get into that part, which is usually around maybe session seven or eight,
Bethany Valenti 1:30:14
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:30:15
then start to kind of pong between all of those things and kind of whatever fits the mode at the time.
Bethany Valenti 1:30:22
Right?
Briania Davis 1:30:22
Um, but again, like that, that true underpinning is very much thorough linguistic. So I like the words that people choose really trying to get into the bubble of who they are as a person. Because if you say things like, if you say things like vibe and it's giving, I know that I'm going to have a challenge understanding what that means to. Just like if a, a client my age says, you know what I mean?
Bethany Valenti 1:30:53
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:30:55
Sometimes I do like if, if the other parts of the conversation are understanding to me. But if just come out and like you just, again, another word we like to use is like, if you rap to me for a little bit and there's not really any, and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. What we're "yeah"ing to,
Bethany Valenti 1:31:13
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:31:15
so when they, so when clients use certain languages, it is very telling of the childhood experience that they had, their cultural influences, because that's also a big component to some of the clients that I'm working with is cultural background, cultural stereotypes. The way we kind of describe that is like all the isms,
Bethany Valenti 1:31:33
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:31:34
racism, sexism, ageism, like all those things. How of those things influence you? Person how they, how have you navigated those things? 'cause that also highlights in my head, like your ability to critically think problem solve, navigate difficult, tense situations.
Bethany Valenti 1:31:52
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:31:54
and so it's, it's very much integrative and very much collaborative. It's not one sided, like I know everything, or they know everything. It's like I have an area of expertise and you have an area of expertise and we're gonna kind of put those two things together
Bethany Valenti 1:32:11
together. I love
Briania Davis 1:32:12
and we're gonna, and we're gonna figure this thing out together. You know? So even if I get you for 55, 60 minutes, I hope that when you walk out of here, that you don't feel like you're taking that walk alone, that when you come back. It's like we're picking up where we left off. You're either giving me a rundown of what happened or we're talking about everything that happened. And the collaboration doesn't just stop or begin with the door it is the continuation until you feel like you can do it.
Bethany Valenti 1:32:46
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:32:47
And you feel like you got it and you got it in the bag and you're like, I think I'm good. And then, you know, our therapeutic relationship sort of comes to an end.
Bethany Valenti 1:32:55
Yeah. And, what is your current fee?
Briania Davis 1:32:56
that is a good question because right now everything is just like insurance based.
Bethany Valenti 1:33:00
So if it was, so is it, let's start with that. Do you take insurance?
Briania Davis 1:33:05
yes, I take insurance, I take, so in Ohio and Indiana it's all commercial.
Bethany Valenti 1:33:10
Okay.
Briania Davis 1:33:11
and then in Kentucky it's commercial and Medicaid. Um, I think currently right now what I have on my website, if a client wanted to do self pay, whether they have insurance or they don't have insurance, I think it is sitting at one 50 I think is the last time that I saw it. But I always preface that too with that if financials is a current stressor, My therapeutic modality is not to add financial stress, it's to help reduce it.
Bethany Valenti 1:33:43
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:33:44
I try to make therapy as accessible as I can. So if a sliding scale or reduce speed is what's necessary, then I'm willing to do that, you know, for the clients who are wanting to put in the work and want to do the work. because it is very much a time commitment on both sides.
Bethany Valenti 1:34:01
yep,
Briania Davis 1:34:01
I'm here showing up for you and I hope that you're showing up for you, not for me.
Bethany Valenti 1:34:06
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:34:06
are showing up for you, and I'm sort of in this with you. And that's sort of like the, that's the thing is that if you're to do it, so am I. But it's also maybe people pleasing, showing up. Like if you,
Bethany Valenti 1:34:22
any tendencies in there. what do you like to nerd out about?
Briania Davis 1:34:27
oh my goodness. I can nerd out about a lot of things. I would probably say right now my current nerd moment Ooh, is very much K-Pop.
Bethany Valenti 1:34:36
K-Pop? Yeah, I could
Briania Davis 1:34:38
My favorite band right now,
Bethany Valenti 1:34:40
Hmm.
Briania Davis 1:34:40
um, is in ENHYPEN.
Bethany Valenti 1:34:43
Oh,
Briania Davis 1:34:43
in my 12-year-old, we went to Chicago in August and we saw them. And at the time I was not in it at all. I was like, girl, what?
Bethany Valenti 1:34:53
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:34:54
So I went and enjoyed it with her, and then something happened like a little K-pop button flipped.
Bethany Valenti 1:35:00
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:35:01
I was all in 10 fingers, 10 toes. Um, and I've not stopped since.
Bethany Valenti 1:35:07
I
Briania Davis 1:35:08
And,
Bethany Valenti 1:35:08
I love
Briania Davis 1:35:09
and now when I go back and I watch my videos of the concert, I was like, I did not appreciate them when they were right in front of me.
Bethany Valenti 1:35:16
Right in front of you.
Briania Davis 1:35:17
I, I, I wish I could go back and do all the things I do now. Like
Bethany Valenti 1:35:21
Reexperience it.
Briania Davis 1:35:22
When I watched him and now I'm like, okay, so when are you coming back? When's the next album? Because I need to get the vip,
Bethany Valenti 1:35:29
And
Briania Davis 1:35:29
that's what I'm, that's what I'm currently nerding out about today.
Bethany Valenti 1:35:35
I forgot to ask, are you, do you do online and in person? One or the other?
Briania Davis 1:35:39
I do online. I'm getting ready to jump back to in-person. That is all sort of like in the mixing bowl of trying to figure out that schedule based off of my current online schedule. but I'm definitely open to going back to seeing people in person. I haven't seen a person in person since 2020.
Bethany Valenti 1:35:59
Hmm. right. We'll be watching out for that. coffee or tea?
Briania Davis 1:36:04
Ooh. Depends on the time of day. Usually coffee in the morning, tea before I go to bed. I like chamomile.
Bethany Valenti 1:36:10
Oh, okay. That's like one of the few teas I do not like. So, but I, you know, I've, somebody's gotta drink it, so I'm happy that,
Briania Davis 1:36:20
Somebody's gonna drink it.
Bethany Valenti 1:36:21
Somebody's gotta drink it. and last question. What is your least favorite misconception about mental health work?
Briania Davis 1:36:30
I don't know why this took me so long, is that all we're doing is talking.
Bethany Valenti 1:36:34
I wondered if that, that's the, I almost, I almost brought that up earlier when we were talking of like, you know, it's just talking to people. Yeah. I wondered if that might come up.
Briania Davis 1:36:43
That's the, that's the one that tends to close my eyes and like internally deep roll my eyes, like
Bethany Valenti 1:36:53
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:36:54
we're doing more than talking. Like there's a lot happening in my head my, when I'm talking to people,
Bethany Valenti 1:37:00
Yeah.
Briania Davis 1:37:01
but again, like visually, I can see
Bethany Valenti 1:37:04
Yep.
Briania Davis 1:37:04
why it looks that way. But again, if you are lifting weights or you just lifting weights, and so I always find like some sort of chhh, you know, to kind of rub back with that stereotype because on the surface it may not look like in those cases that we're doing a whole lot. Um, but this job is hard and most people who are in this field are very empathic and sympathetic people.
Bethany Valenti 1:37:34
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:37:34
And again, when I walk out of the session, especially a tough one, like I just don't drop that off and jump back into my own life. Like, that stuff sits with me
Bethany Valenti 1:37:45
Mm-hmm.
Briania Davis 1:37:46
for a while, not as much as it used to. In the beginning it was very hard but now it's like, yeah, that, that one is going to hang for a little bit, you know, and I'll let it do its thing. But that one. All you do is talk all day. Is it hard to talk all day? Yes. It is hard to talk all day, but for very different reasons.
Bethany Valenti 1:38:12
Yes. Yeah. We're also listening all day.
Briania Davis 1:38:15
Yes. Also, listen,
Bethany Valenti 1:38:16
Yep. Also, lots of
Briania Davis 1:38:17
critical. Critical thing
Bethany Valenti 1:38:18
thinking,
Briania Davis 1:38:19
all day.
Bethany Valenti 1:38:21
All of it. It's all in there.
Briania Davis 1:38:22
Yes. All the things that you do and just, you know, somebody's taking in, processing, jumbling it all up, trying to give it all back.
Bethany Valenti 1:38:31
Well, all Briania Davis, thank you so much for your time today. I've loved it so much.
Briania Davis 1:38:37
Thank you! It's been fun!
1:38:41
If you're interested in finding out more about Brianna, She is on Instagram and Facebook under her practice, Open Arms Wellness LLC. Her website is www.openarmswellnessllc.com. She is also on Psychology Today Thank you for joining us
