Episode 9. What is Executive Functioning Coaching & How can it help? with Dr. Sophia Haeri
Executive functioning coaching can help you get things done without shame.
In this episode, Bethany is joined by Dr. Sophia Haeri, an ADHD, academic strategy, and executive functioning coach. Sophia shares her journey to becoming a therapist, her experiences with ADHD, and the importance of executive functioning coaching. We explore what executive functioning coaching is, who can benefit from it, and how it can help individuals struggling with studies or life's demands. Additionally, Sophia shares about common themes of shame and anxiety, and the ways coaching can provide customized support for each individual's needs.
Say Hello to Your Therapist is a podcast where Bethany gets to sit down with fellow mental health professionals and have real talk about our work!
Available to listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other apps. Available to watch on YouTube! Follow the Instagram page for updates.
Bethany’s Links:
Say Hello to Your Therapist Instagram
Other socials:
Find more from Sophia:
Things & people we talked about:
How to Keep House While Drowning by KC Davis
You Mean I’m Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy? By Kate Kelly and Peggy Ramundo
Transcript
Bethany Valenti 1:30
Welcome Sophia.
Sophia Haeri 1:33
It's good to see you.
Bethany Valenti 1:34
You too. what made you wanna become a therapist? How did you get there?
Sophia Haeri 1:38
You know, I like to joke if it's not one thing, it's your mother
Bethany Valenti 1:43
Right.
Sophia Haeri 1:44
I remember being in high school
Bethany Valenti 1:46
Okay.
Sophia Haeri 1:47
writing in my journal, like I wanna be a, it was a psychotherapist and a writer were the things that I wanted to be
Bethany Valenti 1:52
Mm. I love that.
Sophia Haeri 1:55
and then I went and did so many other things. I. I worked in magazines in London. I helped start a nonprofit in West Africa. and then I found myself working for Merrill Lynch in, new Haven, Connecticut. I was working for a financial, consultant who was managing some local pension funds. And I just had this moment, I was probably about 25 by that point. And I felt like I don't wanna help rich people get richer for the rest of my life. Like it, that's a fine goal, but it just wasn't fulfilling
Bethany Valenti 2:31
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 2:32
I,
Bethany Valenti 2:32
There's a lot of people willing to do that.
Sophia Haeri 2:34
Right. Right. what you know there, I mean, 25, right? You're in the best case scenario, you're a quarter of the way through your life at that point.
Bethany Valenti 2:44
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 2:45
And I knew someone who was a psychotherapist who also taught in a graduate program, who also wrote, who also did advocacy work. And it felt like a career that you could always keep growing in and always keep developing and not get bored. so I started researching graduate programs and by that spring I started my doctoral program just trying out some courses. I did some courses part-time, and I realized that I really loved it and I wanted to continue.
Bethany Valenti 3:14
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 3:14
enrolled full-time and kept going.
Bethany Valenti 3:17
That's amazing. How long ago was that now?
Sophia Haeri 3:21
How long ago was 25, you say?
Bethany Valenti 3:26
I, you know, since you graduated, I don't know. Hm.
Sophia Haeri 3:29
So I actually took a pretty interesting route through graduate school. I did my first five years of coursework, and then I stopped and took some time out, and then went back and finished my doctoral requirements after a break.
Bethany Valenti 3:46
Okay.
Sophia Haeri 3:46
I,
Bethany Valenti 3:47
Got
Sophia Haeri 3:47
yeah, I sort of took a little detour along the
Bethany Valenti 3:50
Yeah, I love it. We love detours. You know, there's no shame in them.
Sophia Haeri 3:55
Right. it was really important for me. I was on a very research oriented track, as I started doing clinical work and getting more in touch with some of the. deeper things for my clients. And that was bringing me more in touch with the deeper things for me and realizing, well, I don't know if the deeper parts of me really wanna be on this research-oriented track. but I didn't know how to go to everyone and tell them, no, I don't wanna do
Bethany Valenti 4:18
Yeah,
Sophia Haeri 4:19
this anymore.
Bethany Valenti 4:19
I actually don't wanna do all that.
Sophia Haeri 4:21
yes. So instead, I just doing things. and until the people in my program said, are you sure you still wanna be here?
Bethany Valenti 4:30
Wow.
Sophia Haeri 4:31
and I think bringing us to what we've planned to talk about
Bethany Valenti 4:34
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 4:35
my own journey with ADHD was a big part of that.
Bethany Valenti 4:38
I was starting to wonder about that. Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 4:41
and because I was, you know, especially in that doctoral program in a lot of ways, I mean, I had a 4.0 average. I was doing really well. but I un under the surface I was struggling. And I managed to, you know, I could use the skills that I had to eke out term papers
Bethany Valenti 5:05
Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 5:06
the last possible minute and they would be great.
Bethany Valenti 5:08
Right.
Sophia Haeri 5:09
but the problem was when things got bigger, right?
Bethany Valenti 5:11
Hmm. Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 5:11
As I like to joke, you can't write a dissertation in a night. And I tried many, many, many, many nights,
Bethany Valenti 5:15
No. I tried over and over again.
Sophia Haeri 5:17
Right,
Bethany Valenti 5:18
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 5:19
right. and I think that, you know, my sort of academic history was that when I was younger, I did really well. I skipped a grade. I was testing into gifted programs that, you know, so
Bethany Valenti 5:31
Mm.
Sophia Haeri 5:32
all the signs were there all the way along.
Bethany Valenti 5:34
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 5:35
but nobody knew to look for them because ADHD often isn't seen very much in women and girls
Bethany Valenti 5:42
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 5:44
and then there was always just like, oh, well you, you're fine, right? Like, yes, you didn't do all these worksheets, but you're you're doing this other stuff. you're acing your tests. So we
Bethany Valenti 5:53
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 5:53
we're not really gonna pay that much attention to that.
Bethany Valenti 5:56
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 5:57
and I think that the way that I worked definitely had some ups and downs in high school and college, but still, somehow I managed to sustain it.
Bethany Valenti 6:03
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 6:04
that, you know, even though my brain could do some things really well, that there would be some things that it couldn't do well, was just not really entertained or explored.
Bethany Valenti 6:12
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 6:13
and it wasn't actually until I was in an externship, like a learning,
Bethany Valenti 6:17
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 6:18
a clinical placement in
Bethany Valenti 6:19
Right.
Sophia Haeri 6:20
And we had a seminar in ADHD and they described the ADHD girl who's daydreaming out the window and has a backpack full of, you know, papers that have, and I just had those moments.
Bethany Valenti 6:31
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 6:31
school, but this was just like, I felt more flooded with shame in that moment, right. Of
Bethany Valenti 6:36
Mm.
Sophia Haeri 6:36
being seen
Bethany Valenti 6:37
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 6:38
it was a journey from that day until I got a diagnosis and even was, I was like, does this, am I finding it trying to find an excuse or is this something
Bethany Valenti 6:46
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 6:46
me? and I think that. You know, anyone who's learned about the diagnoses in our field knows to hold them lightly. Right? Like, I don't, you know, do they ever fit? Exactly. We don't really know,
Bethany Valenti 6:59
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 7:00
so I hold lightly the diagnosis of ADHD. What does it actually mean? Is it a
Bethany Valenti 7:04
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 7:05
sort of garbage bag that we toss a lot of things into? Who does it apply to? How much does it apply to them? even when people come to me for executive functioning coaching,
Bethany Valenti 7:15
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 7:15
to tell them I'm diagnosis agnostic. You know, that, that the diagnosis doesn't matter so much. And we can talk about what it would mean for you and if you want one and how to go about like somebody evaluate you for one. in the meantime, there are lots of things we can do that might help and we don't have to know about a diagnosis in order to try those things and see if they help.
Bethany Valenti 7:36
Yeah. So. People don't necessarily need to have an ADHD diagnosis or any other issue that would require executive functioning coaching, like official diagnosis to benefit from the coaching.
Sophia Haeri 7:53
No, not at all.
Bethany Valenti 7:56
Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 7:57
and in fact, by the time someone is talking to me to ask me about executive
Bethany Valenti 8:01
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 8:02
that they've learned and they've Googled,
Bethany Valenti 8:04
They're probably really well informed. Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 8:06
99% sure that it will be helpful to them, right? Because a lot of people who could benefit from it are busy smushing down the evidence that they could benefit from it under the surface. Oh,
Bethany Valenti 8:17
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 8:18
You
Bethany Valenti 8:18
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 8:19
I'm such an idiot. I forgot my keys. I'm so d you know, like
Bethany Valenti 8:22
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 8:23
of a thing.
Bethany Valenti 8:24
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 8:25
there's a book about ADHD called You're Not Lazy, stupid or Crazy.
Bethany Valenti 8:29
Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 8:29
feel like a lot of people who could benefit from executive functioning coaching have already diagnosed themselves with one of those three things,
Bethany Valenti 8:36
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 8:37
saying, I'm lazy, or I'm stupid, or I'm crazy. And actually what really is true is that their nervous system needs some support to function optimally, and we just have to
Bethany Valenti 8:46
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 8:46
figure out what that support is
Bethany Valenti 8:47
Yeah. I think I've called myself that at different times of my life.
Sophia Haeri 8:53
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 8:54
Yeah. I definitely, you know, so when you said all those three things, I was like, yeah, I have diagnosed myself with that. Like each of those, depending on what was going on, like all of the above. And then it wasn't until, for me, motherhood that really, really made me feel the crazy part.
Sophia Haeri 9:16
Are absolutely, because our nervous systems are going through so much in motherhood, right?
Bethany Valenti 9:22
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 9:23
first of all, there's just the biological stress of growing and delivering and nurturing a baby,
Bethany Valenti 9:30
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 9:30
and then the ways that in modern life we're expected to do that while kind of juggling and standing on our heads,
Bethany Valenti 9:37
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 9:38
you
Bethany Valenti 9:38
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 9:39
that in alongside your job and your other thing. And nevermind that for millennia you've needed a whole village to raise your child. Now it's you and you know, if you're lucky some childcare provider that you can pay
Bethany Valenti 9:51
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 9:52
I stayed home with my daughter in the beginning and I was alone with her for 12 hours a day, right? I had a very supportive spouse, but they weren't there from
Bethany Valenti 10:00
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 10:00
7:00AM-7:00 PM
Bethany Valenti 10:02
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 10:02
and
Bethany Valenti 10:03
Wow.
Sophia Haeri 10:03
a lot,
Bethany Valenti 10:04
That's a long time. Yeah. when you. So have somebody I have thoughts. I have questions, I have thoughts. Just, so is there something that you said, well you said that grad school kind of brought it up for you and I had it in, I had it run in my family, but I never thought it was me because it didn't necessarily look the same. but if I met someone with ADHD, I often was able to be like, oh, I could speak their language because I had someone in my family who had it, you know, my brother had it and so I knew how to like communicate with them. And then grad school came along and I'm learn like, you know, learning a lot more about myself and a lot more of that extra stress and demand and the, what do you call those deadlines, start to look a little different and yeah, and thought it was just anxiety that was kind of paralyzing me. And then it was motherhood that really kind of exposed it. So it sounds. Fairly similar to yours of like, oh, you know, if you look back, the signs are there. But because you were fairly successful once you got especially and, and got really far,
Sophia Haeri 11:14
Right.
Bethany Valenti 11:15
high functioning ADHD as it were.
Sophia Haeri 11:17
Yes.
Bethany Valenti 11:18
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 11:19
you know, there is an idea in this field that this is a diagnosis that's biological, that persists and that is somehow categorical. Either you have it or you don't.
Bethany Valenti 11:29
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 11:30
I'm not sure that's really been born out by so much research.
Bethany Valenti 11:34
hmm. Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 11:36
has found its way in into our clinical knowledge.
Bethany Valenti 11:40
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 11:40
completely sure that that's true.
Bethany Valenti 11:43
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 11:43
I think it's possible that there are a set of symptoms. That might ebb and flow and yet might be distinct from the cognitive symptoms of anxiety and the cognitive symptoms of depression.
Bethany Valenti 11:54
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 11:55
if you have all three how to tease
Bethany Valenti 11:57
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 11:57
one is primary and which one is secondary.
Bethany Valenti 11:59
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 11:59
I definitely treated young people who present with depression, anxiety, and ADHD or executive functioning difficulties
Bethany Valenti 12:09
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 12:10
And when we treat that, the depression lifts right, and the anxiety
Bethany Valenti 12:14
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 12:15
goes away. often the anxiety is sort of a way to manage the struggles with executive
Bethany Valenti 12:19
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 12:20
And if we can help bring support to the executive functioning, they don't need quite as much anxiety. And they don't feel as down on themselves so that they're, they're
Bethany Valenti 12:28
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 12:28
as depressed. It's not always true. Sometimes if you treat depression and anxiety, you know, the cognitive symptoms get better on their own.
Bethany Valenti 12:37
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 12:37
it's like a complicated ball,
Bethany Valenti 12:40
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 12:41
exactly where the threads begin and end.
Bethany Valenti 12:44
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 12:44
but I think it's possible that we may find out in 50 years that what we're currently calling ADHD is something that maybe does ebb and flow through the lifespan, right?
Bethany Valenti 12:55
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 12:56
bit with
Bethany Valenti 12:57
That it?
Sophia Haeri 12:57
children They're not quite as hyperactive when they're 21 and 22,
Bethany Valenti 13:02
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 13:03
just researched that, right?
Bethany Valenti 13:05
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 13:05
And what happens to female brains through the childbearing years through menopause. There's a lot of anec-data, but there's
Bethany Valenti 13:13
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 13:13
as much of a solid research base in that,
Bethany Valenti 13:16
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 13:16
it?
Bethany Valenti 13:16
Oh, absolutely. When did you start like getting into executive functioning coaching, and how did you prepare for that, I guess?
Sophia Haeri 13:26
So I first started doing it without knowing that I was doing it. I was working in a college counseling center as part of the clinical training, In graduate school and I had these college students come in and some of them I could just tell that like what it was actually, the struggles with how to get their homework done,
Bethany Valenti 13:47
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 13:48
primary for them. It wasn't true for all of them. They came in as in college counseling center.
Bethany Valenti 13:52
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 13:54
but I remember distinctly this one woman, we just sat down and we planned out her week and we, we
Bethany Valenti 14:01
I know.
Sophia Haeri 14:02
her work into smaller tasks and we talked about how to manage distractions and that she was one of those cases where once we started doing that, her anxiety and her depression, which she also had symptoms
Bethany Valenti 14:12
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 14:13
started to lift. So I
Bethany Valenti 14:14
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 14:15
idea that this could be helpful and I, you know, it, again, it wasn't with everybody, but there were a couple of other students who. Found it helpful. And then I think I had two or three come in with an ADHD diagnosis and we worked on those things more specifically, and it was, it seemed to be exactly what they needed. Right.
Bethany Valenti 14:34
Yeah. I, in the work that I've done with college students, that tends to be a huge part of it. And so some of it feels like it's developmental, and then some of it is like neurocognitive, like neurodevelopmental stuff. And that you're oh, yeah, actually, let's break this down. it's super fun having those conversations, but it's also more fun for me because I'm on the outside and I'm not in their life, you know, like they're so distressed because they're trying to get everything done.
Sophia Haeri 15:02
yeah. And you know, it's unusual to have support around that. Right. The assumption is, well, if you can make it to college, you can do all these things.
Bethany Valenti 15:09
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The amount of students that came in and said, I didn't actually ever do homework, or I didn't actually need to study, is a lot,
Sophia Haeri 15:19
through the pandemic, right? I have, I had quite a few EF coaching clients who, you know, start 2021, 2022. They were in college saying like, yeah, I never, I cheated on every exam in high school. I didn't need to take this test.
Bethany Valenti 15:34
is it cheated or is it like I kind of, is it skidded or There's I coasted, like there's just, they, they kind of just got by, by just osmosis. Like, by just like absorbing go being in class or just like reading it once and they were fine.
Sophia Haeri 15:48
And a certain skillset was fine up until that point. Right. It's not no shade on them. I, I think what gets tricky is that. so what I notice, especially with students who come to me when they're in college or older, is that a lot of shame tends to have built up, right?
Bethany Valenti 16:06
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 16:06
Because they think they should be able to, but they're not.
Bethany Valenti 16:09
Yeah. And their perfectionism Like skyrocketing, yeah.
Sophia Haeri 16:12
yeah. and a lot of shame about what they can't do and
Bethany Valenti 16:16
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 16:18
and in my first session with people, I always, I used to draw a brain. Now I have a little,
Bethany Valenti 16:24
Oh, lucky.
Sophia Haeri 16:25
that I
Bethany Valenti 16:25
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 16:26
and I really just talk about all the parts of the brain and
Bethany Valenti 16:29
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 16:30
this one part that does all this planning. And what we know is that with people who struggle with it, that that part doesn't get as much bloodflow
Bethany Valenti 16:37
Ooh, what? What part are you pointing at right now?
Sophia Haeri 16:40
the
Bethany Valenti 16:40
Okay.
Sophia Haeri 16:41
orbital prefrontal cortex,
Bethany Valenti 16:42
Okay. Yeah, I figured it was part of the prefrontal cortex or the part of that frontal lobe,
Sophia Haeri 16:46
and so that we, we just wanna provide support. And something that I also talk about is
Bethany Valenti 16:51
mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 16:51
if this part of the brain, So I'm pointing to the amygdala, all the emotion limbic system does emotion regulation, right? If this part of the brain is under stress, if they're in a freeze state, if they're in fight or flight, but they can't fight or they can't flee
Bethany Valenti 17:07
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 17:08
then that's gonna impact all of the other part, you know, all of their thinking, organizing, planning capacity, right? so that, you know, when it's like my English paper is due in 12 hours and I don't know where to start, right? They might be in a bit of a freeze response and they're not gonna be able to figure out how to do it.
Bethany Valenti 17:26
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 17:28
I find that people, once that gets explained to them, can sort of even see it on screen sometimes they just kind of, their body's relaxed and they feel like that critic that's been beating them up just lifts a little bit.
Bethany Valenti 17:41
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 17:43
And we can start to talk about why. Right. I also find in general there's always procrastination somewhere in the picture, or I should say 90% of the time. And I always like to tell people like, procrastination has a really good reason. There's always a good reason for procrastination.
Bethany Valenti 18:00
such a function to it. it's like coping for a lot of the time, you know, and
Sophia Haeri 18:04
yeah.
Bethany Valenti 18:06
people with ADHD tend to do better when there's more of a deadline, right? So procrastinating can feel like, like you said, you can't write a dissertation in a day, but if, for most of your life, you were able to write the paper, you know, the morning of the day it was due, which I'll raise my hand. That was me. I got up in the mornings and did it. a lot of the time. You start to reach certain parts of your life where it's like, actually not everything can be done last minute. You know,
Sophia Haeri 18:36
yeah,
Bethany Valenti 18:37
have to be broken down into different steps, and it's like, oh, which one first? And why? But it's like still, it still feels so big to do all that.
Sophia Haeri 18:46
Mm. And, and, right. Especially for some, you know, often when I work with students who've sort of done well and then struggled, they're like, well, the way I write a paper is I just write it from beginning to end.
Bethany Valenti 18:57
Mm.
Sophia Haeri 18:58
when I start to talk about breaking it down into smaller steps, they just look at me like, I don't wanna try it that way.
Bethany Valenti 19:03
That's not how it works. You just spit it out.
Sophia Haeri 19:06
right, right. And you know, one of the principles that I think is really important in executive function coaching is that all brains are different. And so we wanna find the thing that works for that brain,
Bethany Valenti 19:17
Mm.
Sophia Haeri 19:18
so I wouldn't, in that case, I wouldn't say, well just keep trying the outline, right? I'd say, well, can we, can we do like, a spit out rough draft and then we, we
Bethany Valenti 19:27
Go back.
Sophia Haeri 19:28
is it easier for you to set a 10 minute timer and just write as much as you can and then see where you are? Is that a way to help you get started? Right. Like, so there, we, we wanna adapt to how people's brains work. And also think about, you know, if they're talking to me, it's because that system isn't working exactly it well, as well as it
Bethany Valenti 19:47
yeah,
Sophia Haeri 19:47
or as it once did.
Bethany Valenti 19:49
yeah. I know for me, one of the things that tools, I turned into a tool when I was in grad school was starting the paper, was just creating the document like and title page and
Sophia Haeri 20:03
right.
Bethany Valenti 20:04
that that. Having that done felt like a win because then I could open the document again. Like it wasn't, oh, I need to make the document and write it. For some reason it was very comforting to have it already started somewhere
Sophia Haeri 20:20
yeah,
Bethany Valenti 20:21
then it made it like, oh, I've started it. I'll just come back to it. And instead of like, oh, I have to write the whole paper,
Sophia Haeri 20:27
Yes.
Bethany Valenti 20:29
you have figuring out like how the breakdown works for you because it, I'm sure in executive functioning coaching, it's kinda a mouthful. is it sounds like, from what I'm hearing you say, and just from my own experiences with working with people with executive functioning challenges, that you're really tailoring it to the person and their individual needs. Correct.
Sophia Haeri 20:49
Right. Yes. know, I'm actually thinking as we're talking, I wonder if we should just explain for anyone
Bethany Valenti 20:56
I would love that. Yeah. I was like actually thinking in my head like, can we like back up? So you did it for me
Sophia Haeri 21:02
Right, right. So, I mean, executive functioning are just the skills that we use to manage everyday tasks.
Bethany Valenti 21:09
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 21:10
you mentioned task initiation,
Bethany Valenti 21:12
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 21:13
to begin a task. and also task completion, being able to finish a task. And there are lots of skills that go into that, right? If, you wanna initiate a task, you have to stop what you were doing before. So you have to be able to switch tasks.
Bethany Valenti 21:25
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 21:25
Sometimes you need to be able to plan out the task so that you might need to get what you need to start the task, whether it's information or tools you might need to plan out what the task is. impulse control, organization, planning, prioritization,
Bethany Valenti 21:39
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 21:41
sometimes managing our emotions, what's going on inside us.
Bethany Valenti 21:45
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 21:45
all of those skills fall under this general umbrella. That we call executive functioning. the idea is that you have a little executive in your brain,
Bethany Valenti 21:55
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 21:55
you know, doing all this planning and organizing.
Bethany Valenti 21:59
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 22:00
and some people are really good at it all of the time. Some people are really good at it some of the time and some people struggle with it most of the
Bethany Valenti 22:09
Most of the time. Yeah. Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 22:11
there is a range. and like I know for myself, I'm very good at executive functioning on other people's tasks. Right.
Bethany Valenti 22:19
So that's me too, I'm like, yeah, I could talk about someone else's stuff all day long. Ooh. Like Yeah. I could hold that, but then I'm like standing in front of my laundry, like, Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 22:29
right, right. Exactly. Exactly. I bet if you and I switched lives, we would come back to organize closets and, you
Bethany Valenti 22:37
would be so great, and if only I could maintain it.
Sophia Haeri 22:40
Right, right, So something happens, but I, think it is helpful to notice that, sometimes people will be good at it in some places and
Bethany Valenti 22:50
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 22:51
Right. and usually that just means we to find the support for the places where it's tough.
Bethany Valenti 22:56
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 22:57
when I took time out of graduate school, ironically enough, my job, I was basically the office manager of a small law firm. Right.
Bethany Valenti 23:04
Mm.
Sophia Haeri 23:05
Executive functioning all day. And I managed it great. And then I would leave that job early to go work on my dissertation, which I was still trying to finish.
Bethany Valenti 23:12
Right.
Sophia Haeri 23:13
I would just stare at the computer for hours,
Bethany Valenti 23:15
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 23:17
I started to understand what I needed.
Bethany Valenti 23:19
it makes me think of the times where I would like be doing an office job. I did, I worked my way up when I was in college to like these different positions and just the way I like managed tasks there and just did stuff immediately and just was so on it. And you would to, you know, as we say sometimes to look at me, you wouldn't know or whatever, but then you step into my home, you know, or my car. I did in grad school get better at keeping my car clean because I liked having my car clean. But that just often meant just bringing stuff inside and then putting it somewhere inside. But
Sophia Haeri 23:54
Right,
Bethany Valenti 23:55
you know,
Sophia Haeri 23:55
right.
Bethany Valenti 23:56
was a great place to be
Sophia Haeri 23:59
Yeah,
Bethany Valenti 24:00
surfaces,
Sophia Haeri 24:01
Right. Exactly.
Bethany Valenti 24:02
Yeah. So. Like you said, different people might have different levels of managing it, and it's not something that we're all just immediately born with, right? Like our brain is kind of learning it as we go and kind of
Sophia Haeri 24:19
And you know, where we are in our, birth order can
Bethany Valenti 24:23
mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 24:24
let's say I notice among my own children,
Bethany Valenti 24:26
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 24:26
one child who really is very organized and one who kind of coast along sometimes to the credit of the organization of the other,
Bethany Valenti 24:34
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 24:35
and so the interesting thing is how much, when people struggle with these skills, shame crops up,
Bethany Valenti 24:43
Yeah. Oh, yeah,
Sophia Haeri 24:46
and how it's sort of, it's seen as something that someone should know how to do, right? You should know how to do this. I mean, what do we call adulting nowadays
Bethany Valenti 24:53
I should just be able to adult. I was just thinking today about. What we were talking about was certain scheduling, certain things, just even scheduling something. Yes. Objectively, I think we all know it's not that hard to send an email and get an appointment made,
Sophia Haeri 25:08
Right,
Bethany Valenti 25:08
and yet it's, really hard sometimes.
Sophia Haeri 25:12
Yes, exactly. and maybe like to your point, maybe after you've had a kid, when you're trying to do
Bethany Valenti 25:18
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 25:18
all these things, suddenly it's just that level
Bethany Valenti 25:21
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 25:21
you're like, no, not possible anymore.
Bethany Valenti 25:24
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 25:26
I remember, I mean, so I got a formal diagnosis of ADHD when I was in my thirties.
Bethany Valenti 25:32
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 25:32
that was when I learned that if I made an appointment, I had to put it in my calendar Right. That second.
Bethany Valenti 25:38
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 25:38
and that is one skill that I have done
Bethany Valenti 25:40
God forbid you get interrupted when that happens. like the Mm. Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 25:45
I will not retain it.
Bethany Valenti 25:47
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 25:47
sometimes I will remember, but often, it can happen that I won't. Right. and I used to have a very exciting life when those things would crop up, and then I would have
Bethany Valenti 25:55
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 25:56
them, and now it goes in my calendar.
Bethany Valenti 25:58
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 25:59
I subscribe to something online that I could get, you know, and it's like, try this for a month and I'm not sure if I want it. Make a note 28 days from
Bethany Valenti 26:08
Yes.
Sophia Haeri 26:09
Just to check
Bethany Valenti 26:10
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 26:10
You know?
Bethany Valenti 26:11
Yeah. I will almost like never even subscribe to those kinds of things for free, unless I know I'm gonna wanna keep it, or I would just cancel it later. it's like, no, the free thing, I just gotta know whether or not I'm willing to pay it, because
Sophia Haeri 26:25
it's, you're gonna end up paying it one way
Bethany Valenti 26:27
I'm gonna pay, I'm gonna pay it. Yeah. it's gonna happen.
Sophia Haeri 26:30
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 26:31
but like, there's a number of things that impact, we talked about like development at different areas, like you said, environment, Brain damage, right? Brain injury can impact our executive functioning. yeah. And then we, we mentioned ADHD is a big one,
Sophia Haeri 26:46
Right.
Bethany Valenti 26:47
sometimes, you know, you'll have autism and ADHD diagnosed together, or you can have like, 'cause when, when we're doing assessment for ADHD, we're also trying to rule out other things that could affect focus, trauma, depression, anxiety. However, as you were already illustrating, sometimes we are all of those things because of the ADHD, because you're trying to manage all this stuff and it's dragging you down.
Sophia Haeri 27:12
Right.
Bethany Valenti 27:14
at the same time, it's also possible to have ADHD and go through a trauma or to be anxious To have autism, to have all of these things. It is possible to have more than one, but it does make it hard to like tease apart sometimes.
Sophia Haeri 27:29
Right? Absolutely. You know, I worked in foster care for a couple of years, and every child who came into the agency where we worked had to have a full evaluation,
Bethany Valenti 27:38
Right?
Sophia Haeri 27:39
they had sort of like a targeted, psychological evaluation. And one of our general rules of thumb was that we weren't going to give diagnoses of ADHD, especially not the first time through, because every child, by definition who's in the foster care system, is undergoing a trauma.
Bethany Valenti 27:56
Right.
Sophia Haeri 27:57
how can you do the differential diagnosis of ADHD and trauma
Bethany Valenti 28:01
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 28:01
in the middle
Bethany Valenti 28:02
You would be diagnosing them all with ADHD and trauma
Sophia Haeri 28:06
and, sometimes that's, that was complicated, right? Because especially if their trauma symptoms were presenting cognitively,
Bethany Valenti 28:13
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 28:13
they could have benefited from supports in schools.
Bethany Valenti 28:16
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 28:16
we don't have a system where they can get those supports for, let's say a P-T-S-D, a post-traumatic stress diagnosis,
Bethany Valenti 28:24
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 28:25
the, criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder are, quite specific and they're more designed around an, a response to a traumatic event, right? and they're less designed around the complex trauma, sort of multiple traumas and multiple things that might be happening in the case of a child in foster care. and so sometimes I completely agreed with the guiding principle
Bethany Valenti 28:47
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 28:47
idea of not putting a diagnosis that would then stay with the child. I wish that there was something that we could give them that would allow them to get supports, for example, in school
Bethany Valenti 28:56
Mm-hmm. In the meantime,
Sophia Haeri 28:59
with ADHD might get.
Bethany Valenti 29:00
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 29:01
and so yeah, it is really hard to tease those things apart.
Bethany Valenti 29:05
Mm-hmm. Which, to your point earlier would make sense as to why if someone's coming to you and struggling, then whether or not they have a diagnosis is moot because then they could likely benefit from executive functioning coaching, no matter what the diagnosis is,
Sophia Haeri 29:23
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 29:24
maybe through the coaching, they have a greater understanding of themselves and what they can cope with and what they might need even more support
Sophia Haeri 29:30
Right,
Bethany Valenti 29:31
Right.
Sophia Haeri 29:33
my current executive functioning coaching practice started, with one student. They had like, so I when I started doing it on my own, there was, somebody had posted on Nextdoor back when it was newer that their child was struggling in school and they thought that they're, they were, they thought it wasn't how smart they were, but they might be struggling with other things.
Bethany Valenti 29:54
Okay.
Sophia Haeri 29:55
I reached out to that mom and we talked and I said, I had done similar things with college students in the college counseling center. I'd be happy to try working with her son. and he, at the time, I mean, grades are not the most important thing here, but they're feedback, right? And so he at the time was getting D's and F's and was gonna have to be put into a track where he wasn't gonna get a full New York, what they call a Regents high school diploma, which is what you need to go to college, right?
Bethany Valenti 30:21
big consequences.
Sophia Haeri 30:22
Right. And she was just like, you know, something's, not adding up with the way that the school system is treating my son and I, I'd like to get him some extra support. and so I started working with him and in the beginning there was, you know, a giant pile of papers
Bethany Valenti 30:35
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 30:36
but he's such a bright and willing kid.
Bethany Valenti 30:41
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 30:41
and two months in, his lowest grade was a B plus,
Bethany Valenti 30:45
Wow.
Sophia Haeri 30:46
because we managed to figure out what supports he needed to be able to have his grades reflect his ability
Bethany Valenti 30:53
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 30:53
right?
Bethany Valenti 30:54
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 30:55
facilitate that effort. and I, a couple of times mentioned to the parent, you know, maybe we wanna think about a diagnosis, but I tread very lightly
Bethany Valenti 31:06
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 31:07
And I think in that family, there's a way that, that might have meant something like that. There was something quote unquote wrong with him, and it was important to them that there was nothing wrong with him, which I agree with him.
Bethany Valenti 31:18
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 31:19
with him.
Bethany Valenti 31:19
Yeah,
Sophia Haeri 31:20
I
Bethany Valenti 31:20
that's in some ways, that's a philosophical que, you know what I mean? Like bigger picture of like, what does diagnosis mean? Does that mean there's something wrong with you? No. Like, yeah. So yeah, bigger questions.
Sophia Haeri 31:30
do mean a lot.
Bethany Valenti 31:31
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 31:32
hold that, right? we think about, you know, whether or not we would diagnose someone with, let's
Bethany Valenti 31:37
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 31:38
well, I'm thinking of borderline personality disorder.
Bethany Valenti 31:40
Right.
Sophia Haeri 31:41
disclose that. we may not even make the diagnosis. Right.
Bethany Valenti 31:44
Yeah. Because we know the consequences of being labeled with that, and sometimes ADHD or all sorts of other diagnoses do have consequences, and connotations.
Sophia Haeri 31:54
Exactly. So we worked together through all four years of high school.
Bethany Valenti 31:58
Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 31:59
we stopped working together when he went to college.
Bethany Valenti 32:01
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 32:01
I could tell you that I think some signs and symptoms were there.
Bethany Valenti 32:04
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 32:05
but the executive functioning support, didn't really matter, right.
Bethany Valenti 32:10
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 32:11
just mattered that it was tailored to what he needed
Bethany Valenti 32:13
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 32:13
really tried to do that.
Bethany Valenti 32:15
Yeah, I love that. So How would someone maybe know that they might, 'cause what if they don't even know the ADHD coaching is an option or like, executive functioning coaching is an option How might they come to you? What are they Googling? What are they struggling with?
Sophia Haeri 32:29
it's a
Bethany Valenti 32:30
am I crazy? Am I in, what were the three, am I stupid? Am I lazy? Yeah. And then Google leads them to actually, you might have some executive functioning concerns.
Sophia Haeri 32:40
yeah, generally people are gonna find me because they have somehow heard that this might be helpful. Maybe they got a neuropsychological evaluation, maybe they just decided to go, you know, sort of like academic coaching or some, maybe
Bethany Valenti 32:53
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 32:54
came to
Bethany Valenti 32:55
Mm-hmm. Because it's like, I just need a little bit of help with my schoolwork
Sophia Haeri 32:58
Right. And once they already have that idea,
Bethany Valenti 33:02
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 33:02
then it's easier to make that match. Right. And I think there are definitely people, I mean, if someone's listened this far in, and they don't already know you or me, then maybe there's, you know, if you're listening, I'm happy to talk to you about executive functioning coaching.
Bethany Valenti 33:17
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 33:18
I think there is probably a larger subset of people who could benefit from this kind of service.
Bethany Valenti 33:23
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 33:25
but the people who find me generally, they have a little bit of an understanding of what it is.
Bethany Valenti 33:30
And what ages do you tend to work with? Like are you mostly doing people who are like working with people who are in school? Or is it like me, like a mom who says, I've, I've gotten this far, but holy crap, children are hard. Or something like that.
Sophia Haeri 33:44
Originally my practice was more, young people
Bethany Valenti 33:48
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 33:48
it's really expanded
Bethany Valenti 33:49
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 33:50
I see, a fair amount of adults too. And I think adults, sometimes they've already been to a few therapists, right? And
Bethany Valenti 34:00
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 34:00
like they have a framework for what they might be expecting, but then there's this huge amount of relief to have a clinician who's willing to meet them through all the layers of it, right?
Bethany Valenti 34:11
'cause I think that's one of my next questions is what makes it similar or different to therapy?
Sophia Haeri 34:17
so I mean, for example, I have a couple of clients who started seeing me for psychotherapy,
Bethany Valenti 34:25
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 34:25
But they had ADHD and they wanted someone who specialized in that.
Bethany Valenti 34:28
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 34:29
and so one thing that I will do is. meet them wherever they need in that particular week.
Bethany Valenti 34:36
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 34:37
Like maybe one week we're discussing, something about their romantic life and the underlying attachment issues there.
Bethany Valenti 34:44
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 34:45
And then maybe another week they have a huge pile of Amazon returns and they're feeling really crappy 'cause one of them has just missed the deadline. And we wanna actually sit down and structure and make a list,
Bethany Valenti 34:55
I think I might need to add ADHD coaching or executive functioning coaching to my website because I love, like, this is like the me and my clients, you know what I mean? It's like, okay, let's break this down. You know, that's not the main priority right now. Let's like set stuff aside.
Sophia Haeri 35:10
right, right, right. And I have a lot of, I mean, I don't only treat, I
Bethany Valenti 35:15
Yeah. You do all sorts of stuff.
Sophia Haeri 35:17
Right. And I have some people who I know they don't need help with that. I remember someone who I worked with for quite a while on thinking about making a career transition and they didn't really need like the nuts and bolts of the career transition. They needed
Bethany Valenti 35:31
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 35:31
picture of who will I be, what will this mean, all of that
Bethany Valenti 35:35
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 35:35
Right.
Bethany Valenti 35:36
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 35:36
whereas there's some people I can sense actually, writing out the list of what it would mean to make this career transition and how, and doing all the planning is the thing that would help them get from A to B.
Bethany Valenti 35:47
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 35:47
I wish that, it is part of providing, diagnostically competent care if someone actually has a diagnosis of ADHD.
Bethany Valenti 35:53
All right.
Sophia Haeri 35:54
and I, yeah, I, I wish it was more part of our field. 'cause I think often you know, there's a bias about being a clinician who doesn't get into the nitty gritty.
Bethany Valenti 36:02
yeah, yeah. I think you can have that and, yeah, or good or for bad, depending. It depends. on the need really does, you know, and the fit, like,
Sophia Haeri 36:14
yeah, yeah.
Bethany Valenti 36:17
yeah. You might ask someone and be like, oh, so tell me why an Amazon. List of Amazon packages or like whatever, you know, like is highly distressing to you. Tell me about that. What is it? Yeah. Instead of being like, God, yeah, it sounds like you were just kind of overwhelmed and having a hard time prioritizing, like, how can we help you feel a little bit better in the moment? And what one of the things that I will talk with people about is I've had clients who feel overwhelmed or feel like they're behind or on something, on some of their, what is, KC Davis calls it, Care tasks, I think.
Sophia Haeri 36:50
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 36:51
and so I'll just sort of say what is. What's the one thing that would give you the most relief? Like what's the least that you can do that would give you the most relief in like the shortest amount of time? you know, is that something that we can identify or what's bothering you the most right now? Is that just the one thing that needs to get done today?
Sophia Haeri 37:08
yeah.
Bethany Valenti 37:09
Is that similar to some of what you're doing?
Sophia Haeri 37:12
Yes. I mean, because prioritization
Bethany Valenti 37:15
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 37:15
something that people with ADHD or executive functioning difficulties do struggle with,
Bethany Valenti 37:20
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 37:20
what's most important? because. know, ADHD brains are very adaptive and what they're adapted to do is to deal with what's urgent and, and what will get them the most dopamine. Right?
Bethany Valenti 37:32
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 37:32
that might mean that watching the next video in the series of YouTube videos that I've been watching for the past 40 minutes is more important I'm putting air quotes around that. than I don't know, going to see what got left on the stove, right? Like, or the bill that has been unpaid for a month or whatever it is that,
Bethany Valenti 37:49
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 37:49
nagging task, right?
Bethany Valenti 37:51
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 37:52
so yes, you know, one of the things I will do with people is really try to, to think about how to delineate, how do we determine what our priorities are? You know, for, for students it's pretty simple because wherever. they're getting their education is giving them the structure. It's, it's, it's externally determined. sometimes they'll wanna think about how to prioritize friends or hobbies or sports
Bethany Valenti 38:14
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 38:14
or their
Bethany Valenti 38:15
How do I get it all done? How do I do it all?
Sophia Haeri 38:17
and then for working adults, it's similar, right? if they have a job, then it's how do we fit things around that? if they don't have a job, well, if they don't want one, then what would they like to structure their day around? If they do want one, then how do we structure their day around getting one? How do we manage all the other things, and help make the goal setting realistic because a lot of times what happens is ADHD brands get attracted and interested by so many things. So suddenly now there's some self-criticism because, wait, I wanna do all these things that are interesting to me.
Bethany Valenti 38:50
Yeah. Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 38:50
do them all amazingly well because that's important to me. And now I feel bad because I'm not managing to
Bethany Valenti 38:56
Ugh.
Sophia Haeri 38:56
them to the
Bethany Valenti 38:57
Job it, this is so relatable.
Sophia Haeri 38:59
Anytime. Bethany, you wanna break it down?
Bethany Valenti 39:01
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 39:02
Yeah. Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 39:03
Yes. I mentioned KC Davis. one of the things I have sort of tried to adopt from her book, how to Keep House while Drowning, that was written for doing self-care. Have you read it at all?
Sophia Haeri 39:14
I've heard really good things about it
Bethany Valenti 39:14
Oh my God, read it. It's so good. She also does the audiobook and I did it. it's so good because she talks about the shame, that we carry around a lot of this stuff. struggling with certain tasks and just different things, and how to prioritize and what that means for you. one of the things that she says in her book that I have tried to just, I quoted it to a client the other day, I think maybe it was just to myself, but, anything worth doing is worth doing Half-assed
Sophia Haeri 39:41
Hmm. That's a good one. Right,
Bethany Valenti 39:44
'cause it's like.
Sophia Haeri 39:45
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 39:46
It's, anything worth doing is worth just getting done. And if it's half-assed, then it's done right?
Sophia Haeri 39:51
Right, right.
Bethany Valenti 39:52
It doesn't have to be perfect. One of the big examples she shares is when it dawned on her that she didn't need to fold her infant's onesies. When she put the laundry away,
Sophia Haeri 40:03
Sure.
Bethany Valenti 40:04
You know, and just figuring out what, maybe like the system of laundry or your refrigerator or whatever it is you don't like, you can switch it up or prioritize what is more meaningful to you. You know what, for my husband, I think a lot of people relate to this, but for my husband, if the dishes pile up, that feels like the whole house is in chaos. You know, having an empty sink or a clean sink can sometimes feel like you're actually up to speed on something. Is it a visible representation? is it like a feeling of something? Like KC Davis says, I sweep because I actually don't like the feeling of grime on my feet, and I like to walk around barefoot a lot, you know?
Sophia Haeri 40:44
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 40:45
figuring out what matters to you.
Sophia Haeri 40:48
Right. And what is, you know, if I dread sweeping, do I wanna set a timer in sweep for five minutes?
Bethany Valenti 40:53
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 40:54
trashy TV show
Bethany Valenti 40:56
Right.
Sophia Haeri 40:56
that?
Bethany Valenti 40:57
Do I have the funds to just buy a little, robot vacuum or whatever, you know what I mean?
Sophia Haeri 41:01
sweep for me?
Bethany Valenti 41:02
yeah, yeah, yeah. Or do I need a body double? 'cause I just want someone to talk to while I do this, you know?
Sophia Haeri 41:08
Do I wanna call a friend or both get on Zoom and we'll sweep together,
Bethany Valenti 41:11
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 41:12
it
Bethany Valenti 41:12
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 41:13
because the freeze response and the dread and the shame all start to compound each other. And then, there tends to be even more self-criticism.
Bethany Valenti 41:21
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 41:22
quote unquote, should be simple.
Bethany Valenti 41:23
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 41:24
I am, lazy, stupid, or crazy
Bethany Valenti 41:27
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 41:27
do this sweeping thing
Bethany Valenti 41:29
Yeah. And that it's something fundamentally wrong with me because I can't do something that's supposed to be
Sophia Haeri 41:34
right.
Bethany Valenti 41:34
an easy thing that we are teaching our little children to do, you know, there's just so much material that we have to tear ourselves down with these things.
Sophia Haeri 41:43
Yes. And if someone has struggled with task initiation, for example, they probably struggled their whole life
Bethany Valenti 41:48
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 41:49
probably felt like they were running on a broken leg their whole life,
Bethany Valenti 41:53
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 41:53
they probably got yelled at when they were little, and they weren't whatever it was getting out of the house or starting their homework or all these
Bethany Valenti 41:59
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 42:00
then every time they try to initiate a task, all of that is flooding them consciously or unconsciously.
Bethany Valenti 42:08
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 42:09
makes them go, oh, you know, I'll just scroll for a little bit. I'll start when the clock gets to the oh oh. I'll
Bethany Valenti 42:17
Stop it again. Yep.
Sophia Haeri 42:23
yeah. it's not that hard to live inside people's heads when I've been inside my own,
Bethany Valenti 42:26
Oh, yeah, I, same. yeah. I'll be like, oh, so is it like this, this, this, and this, just let me know what you think. Is that right or wrong? And they'll be like, oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah. So, I fear I tangentially took us somewhere. so you in some cases just work with like what certain clients need in therapy. If they are bringing in something that is related and they know that you can, but then you sometimes have people specifically come to you for executive functioning coaching. Correct.
Sophia Haeri 42:58
Right,
Bethany Valenti 42:59
And would that look different than traditional therapy
Sophia Haeri 43:04
at this point, no. I did do some executive functioning coaching. Before I had my license. So for
Bethany Valenti 43:11
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 43:11
to be very clear that I was not their therapist, and that if stuff came up, I would refer them out for therapy.
Bethany Valenti 43:17
Okay.
Sophia Haeri 43:18
I will say that even under the rubric of executive functioning coaching, sometimes we would get to some deeper self-image issues
Bethany Valenti 43:26
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 43:27
know, their depression would come up or, right. And I, I wouldn't say that I was treating those things, but I wasn't ignoring
Bethany Valenti 43:32
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 43:33
we were looking at things to manage that as well. now I would do bo I would slip in and out pretty, pretty easily. I do have a couple people, I see for executive function coaching, who also have therapists who I communicate with. And we, we obviously, connect to coordinate care, but I then I try to pretty much stay in my lane and say, oh, this might be a good thing to bring up with so and so when you see them next. and I, you know, just to help them not feel pulled in different directions.
Bethany Valenti 44:04
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 44:04
I think that I don't, feel like the division is a little bit artificial, really.
Bethany Valenti 44:08
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 44:09
a part of managing life,
Bethany Valenti 44:11
It's just kind of like, this is one of the things that I offer as part of our work together.
Sophia Haeri 44:17
Yes, yes,
Bethany Valenti 44:19
Clients can know that they're safe using their time for that,
Sophia Haeri 44:23
Absolutely.
Bethany Valenti 44:24
how does it make you feel that you can't keep up with these things and
Sophia Haeri 44:29
right,
Bethany Valenti 44:29
whatever.
Sophia Haeri 44:30
Because so much of neurodivergence is just accepting and understanding, oh, well, you know, brain doesn't seem to function like everybody else's. and again, the question of what's divergent and what's quote unquote normal
Bethany Valenti 44:44
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 44:45
is a complex one I wanna begin to tease apart here, but.
Bethany Valenti 44:48
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 44:48
You
Bethany Valenti 44:49
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 44:49
and sort of just accepting that this is the way that my brain does
Bethany Valenti 44:53
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 44:53
and how can I support it
Bethany Valenti 44:56
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 44:56
to feel really helpful for people.
Bethany Valenti 44:58
Yeah. Well, before we get into our wrap up questions, is there anything else that you would just want people to know about executive functioning coaching or trying to find someone who does it?
Sophia Haeri 45:11
You know, it's interesting. it can be hard to find someone who does it, right. I know in my area there aren't a lot of people who do it and definitely even fewer licensed clinicians who do it. I think the first thing, you know, someone who feels like they need it. is just to do research and usually people who have trouble with executive function are actually quite good at research. Right. Especially for something they're interested in.
Bethany Valenti 45:38
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 45:38
and so to really understand as much as possible, because I think that can really help. And I think that there is a lot of good information out there about executive functioning coaching on Google, on YouTube. one of the books that really helped me was a book. It's called, it's a Disorganized Mind
Bethany Valenti 45:55
Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 45:55
all about, how a person can self-coach for ADHD.
Bethany Valenti 46:00
Wow.
Sophia Haeri 46:01
it was, those were the principles that I put into practice when I
Bethany Valenti 46:04
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 46:04
working with people.
Bethany Valenti 46:05
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 46:06
so I just, I do think it can sometimes be hard to access. Right?
Bethany Valenti 46:11
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 46:11
I think that looking for support. can be helpful. And then also, I think that anybody who does it is gonna be Googleable under executive functioning coaching near me. Right.
Bethany Valenti 46:22
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 46:23
and it doesn't have to be, near them actually. 'cause now in our virtually connected world,
Bethany Valenti 46:28
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 46:29
do provide executive functioning coaching to people who aren't in my neighborhood.
Bethany Valenti 46:32
Mm-hmm. It might make things easier for them,
Sophia Haeri 46:36
Right,
Bethany Valenti 46:36
that they don't have to make their way there.
Sophia Haeri 46:38
Yeah, exactly.
Bethany Valenti 46:39
Are you ready for a wrap up question?
Sophia Haeri 46:42
I think that sounds great.
Bethany Valenti 46:43
Mm,
Sophia Haeri 46:44
I, you can choose for this to be part of the episode or not, but like,
Bethany Valenti 46:48
yeah.
Sophia Haeri 46:49
Any questions I can answer for you while we're discussing this?
Bethany Valenti 46:52
Nothing that's majorly coming to mind other than 'cause like you shared that book and I'm like, well I'll be reading that book and just kinda, it feels very empowering to feel like I could just sort of claim that I do it and just kind of get some more resources together and to potentially like offer it, like to say that I actually do offer it and that I'm happy to offer it for some people. 'cause I do love working with people with ADHD. I just haven't claimed that as like a specialty.
Sophia Haeri 47:17
I have a feeling they would love to work with you and that it would be nice for them to be able to find you and feel seen
Bethany Valenti 47:24
That's very kind. I appreciate that. we will. See. I appreciate you're inspiring me as we're going through this, I'm grateful.
Sophia Haeri 47:31
yeah, no, it's my pleasure. And also think that because so much of it is just trying to look at the puzzle that's in front of us
Bethany Valenti 47:38
Yes.
Sophia Haeri 47:38
figure out what does this, what supports does this puzzle need? Right. That, I don't know that it's, it's something think lived, you know, I, I don't know. That's something that's someone needs to get a whole bunch of other qualifications in, right?
Bethany Valenti 47:52
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 47:53
those qualifications may or may not meet the needs of the puzzle that's right in front of us.
Bethany Valenti 47:58
Yeah. I knew someone who. I was on internship with who struggled with some of like initiation stuff or like completion of stuff, not themselves, but for other people, because they just always had to get stuff done and they had no issues with that. they had very much like a just, just do it. And I remember being like, oh, I could sit with that all day.
Sophia Haeri 48:20
right.
Bethany Valenti 48:20
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 48:21
yeah. I was lucky enough to marry someone who definitely is the opposite of me in this particular way.
Bethany Valenti 48:26
Mm mm
Sophia Haeri 48:28
it's so helpful.
Bethany Valenti 48:30
nice. not me. We, I think that, while we do compliment each other in the ways that we like, need to, I think that's really helpful. But yeah, I, especially before we got diagnosed, 'cause there's, like we said, there's so many things that affect executive functioning
Sophia Haeri 48:43
yeah.
Bethany Valenti 48:44
I was like, I don't know man. Like our executive functioning is such that I don't know that we're gonna be able to do X, Y, and Z
Sophia Haeri 48:50
right?
Bethany Valenti 48:51
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 48:52
I think, talk about how to keep house while drowning. I feel like I've been saved from drowning a lot by my spouse
Bethany Valenti 48:56
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 48:57
who will
Bethany Valenti 48:58
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 48:58
yep, we gotta empty the dishwasher. Got get up. Gotta get
Bethany Valenti 49:01
Yep.
Sophia Haeri 49:01
get there.
Bethany Valenti 49:02
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 49:03
so
Bethany Valenti 49:03
It's nice to feel like you're not the one just managing the whole household. That's huge too. So wrap up questions. Where are you licensed?
Sophia Haeri 49:13
so New York, Connecticut, and then 40 states through PSYPACT,
Bethany Valenti 49:19
yep.
Sophia Haeri 49:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bethany Valenti 49:20
and do you have openings right now?
Sophia Haeri 49:22
Yes, I do. They're a little bit scheduled delimited.
Bethany Valenti 49:27
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 49:27
pretty full caseload.
Bethany Valenti 49:29
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 49:29
but yes,
Bethany Valenti 49:30
Yeah, but they're there.
Sophia Haeri 49:32
yeah,
Bethany Valenti 49:32
Do you take insurance?
Sophia Haeri 49:34
I do not,
Bethany Valenti 49:35
Do not. And what's your current fee?
Sophia Haeri 49:38
I'm in the process of changing it. Is
Bethany Valenti 49:40
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's totally fine.
Sophia Haeri 49:42
If people are interested they can reach out to me.
Bethany Valenti 49:43
Yeah, Check out the website or reach out to make sure that it's the same schedule, that free initial consultation to see if that's a good fit for you. and what, how would you describe your theoretical orientation?
Sophia Haeri 49:58
Integrative for sure.
Bethany Valenti 49:59
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 50:00
I bring in so many different things. I was fortunate to have really good, solid cognitive behavioral training. Also really good solid psychodynamic training. And then, I've sought out a lot of training both in couples work and then in, more embodied trauma treatment approaches. and so I feel like I bring of those in whenever they seem useful. In a session.
Bethany Valenti 50:25
Yeah. And you are only online, or you're in online and in person.
Sophia Haeri 50:32
A session. I do some in-person work, but generally my openings are for virtual
Bethany Valenti 50:36
Okay. what do you nerd out about?
Sophia Haeri 50:40
Oh, good question. What do I nerd out about? you know, lately I have been nerding out about trauma treatment 'cause there's just.
Bethany Valenti 50:52
Mm,
Sophia Haeri 50:52
So much to learn.
Bethany Valenti 50:54
it's,
Sophia Haeri 50:54
it
Bethany Valenti 50:55
yeah,
Sophia Haeri 50:55
interesting.
Bethany Valenti 50:56
same. I can get into that.
Sophia Haeri 50:58
yeah, I'd say that's the biggest one that I've been nerding out about
Bethany Valenti 51:01
Yeah. I'll be excited for you to listen to, well, several of the episodes, but one of the ones where I focus a little bit more on trauma is with, Kimberly Kim. but when that one comes out, we talk about trauma, we talk about EMDR, it's super cool. So, yeah.
Sophia Haeri 51:15
yeah.
Bethany Valenti 51:15
and what's something that you find comforting?
Sophia Haeri 51:19
Oh, you know, my family,
Bethany Valenti 51:21
Hmm
Sophia Haeri 51:23
It's funny, I was away at a pretty intensive trauma training last
Bethany Valenti 51:26
hmm.
Sophia Haeri 51:27
there's a lot going through my body as we're processing what's happening with all the bodies in the room.
Bethany Valenti 51:31
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 51:32
And my husband and kids drove up and hung out in my Airbnb on Saturday night. And I, even though the kids were being cr you know, they were
Bethany Valenti 51:39
yeah.
Sophia Haeri 51:39
and playing and we were like, shh, there's somebody upstairs, you know? But I just, my whole body felt better after having them
Bethany Valenti 51:46
You're like, this is the familiar chaos that I know.
Sophia Haeri 51:49
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 51:50
feel different in my body.
Sophia Haeri 51:52
right. And my spouse just like really just calms my whole nervous
Bethany Valenti 51:57
Mm.
Sophia Haeri 51:58
makes me so happy.
Bethany Valenti 52:00
I love that.
Sophia Haeri 52:00
biggest comfort.
Bethany Valenti 52:01
Are you coffee or tea person?
Sophia Haeri 52:04
I mean, I love a good coffee, but I can't drink it so much
Bethany Valenti 52:07
Mm,
Sophia Haeri 52:09
So every once in a while, like a nice cappuccino, but mostly an herbal tea.
Bethany Valenti 52:16
Is it, so it's the caffeine that you can't really do as much.
Sophia Haeri 52:19
yeah, yeah.
Bethany Valenti 52:19
so what's your favorite skill to give clients?
Sophia Haeri 52:23
Oh, what an interesting question. You know, I will bring skills in, but I will say it's not like I'm not so much a homework kind of
Bethany Valenti 52:36
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 52:37
Sometimes I'll say, I'll give an
Bethany Valenti 52:38
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 52:38
You might wanna try this between now and next week.
Bethany Valenti 52:41
Right. Yeah. That's me too.
Sophia Haeri 52:42
a, it's a, you might wanna try this, not a do this
Bethany Valenti 52:45
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 52:45
check in on it.
Bethany Valenti 52:45
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 52:46
and the one, I think the things that I've been noticing I use most lately are. More about perspectives, I think that the ones that have probably come up more often than not lately are just the understanding that whatever is happening in the present is an adaptive response to a situation that is no longer true. and really exploring that, I would say that is one big one. and the other, is this idea that I take from the somatic experiencing, world, which is of Pendulation, you know, because we tend, I think we as people and you know, we as people are also become clients, Tend to look at growth in very linear terms. And it has to go this way, right? And often it's more of this. And we experience something and then we find our way out of it, and then we go back to it, and then we find our way out of it and then we go back to it.
Bethany Valenti 53:41
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 53:42
to just really normalize that, that is part of a nervous system adapting. and that then we just wanna find our way to, if this is where we wanna be, and this is where we were, how can we sort of strengthen the process this way? But to know that actually to go from here to here is a lot in the beginning. And so we will go back and those are my two at the moment. Two things that I love to really explore with people
Bethany Valenti 54:06
Yeah. What would you say is your least favorite misconception about the work that we do?
Sophia Haeri 54:12
I suppose my least favorite is the stigma, right? That you
Bethany Valenti 54:16
have to have something
Sophia Haeri 54:16
quote unquote wrong with you.
Bethany Valenti 54:18
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 54:19
I like to think more about therapy, the way that people think about going to a personal trainer.
Bethany Valenti 54:22
Yeah, I know.
Sophia Haeri 54:24
And I suppose the other is just this idea that somebody is there asking you what are you feeling? What are, you know, why?
Bethany Valenti 54:32
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 54:32
although to be fair, there probably are therapists out there who are doing that.
Bethany Valenti 54:37
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 54:38
but
Bethany Valenti 54:39
It has its place right?
Sophia Haeri 54:39
Right, right. Although I'd like people to feel like they would get to explore more interesting questions if they went to therapy.
Bethany Valenti 54:49
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 54:51
and I would hope that they would feel like they were finding relief from what they were struggling with, and maybe that then they could feel emboldened to know that from all the research that we've done, the thing that we've found is the most important is the fit between the client and the therapist.
Bethany Valenti 55:07
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 55:08
so
Bethany Valenti 55:08
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 55:08
like a good fit. are
Bethany Valenti 55:10
Yeah.
Sophia Haeri 55:11
others out there and keep going
Bethany Valenti 55:12
Hmm.
Sophia Haeri 55:13
till you find the right one.
Bethany Valenti 55:14
Yeah, as exhausting as that can be, there is someone out there for you
Sophia Haeri 55:18
yeah,
Bethany Valenti 55:19
Sophia, where can people find you?
Sophia Haeri 55:21
I have two websites. one is under development at the moment, but should be all the way finished pretty soon. So my executive functioning website is organized-mind.com my sort of more traditional psychotherapy website that talks about my work with trauma and couples and, international work is, Bellewood Psychology, B-E-L-L-E-W-O-O-D, psychology all one word.com.
Bethany Valenti 55:49
Awesome. Thank you so much. It's been really nice having this time with you today.
Sophia Haeri 55:55
Oh yeah, I agree. Bethany,
Bethany Valenti 55:58
we're gonna have you back, but I'm grateful 'cause I think this is important for people to know about that it's even a thing.
Sophia Haeri 56:05
really fun. Yeah. and I can really empathize with how hard it is to not find it right. It's nice to know that it's there and for people who need it to be able to look
Bethany Valenti 56:13
Yeah,
Sophia Haeri 56:14
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 56:14
nothing else, just to understand that that's a piece of the fit that may be missing.
Sophia Haeri 56:19
Absolutely.
Bethany Valenti 56:20
Yeah. So Dr. Sophia Haeri, thank you so much.
Sophia Haeri 56:26
Oh, Bethany, this was such a pleasure.
Bethany Valenti 56:29
Mm-hmm.
Sophia Haeri 56:29
really enjoyed it.
Bethany Valenti 56:30
Me too.
