Episode 6. Therapist Red Flags & Green Flags with Anna Khandrueva, LCSW
What to look out for when finding the right therapist?
In this episode, Dr. Valenti talks with Anna Khandrueva, a licensed clinical social worker with specialized training in trauma and family therapy. Anna shares her insights on identifying red and green flags when searching for a therapist. They discuss the essential qualities to look for, the importance of feeling comfortable and safe, and the critical role of continuing education for mental health professionals. Anna also dives into her personal journey from finance to therapy, offering valuable advice for those seeking the right therapist. Don't miss out on the free guide to finding a great therapist, provided by Anna.
Say Hello to Your Therapist is a podcast where Bethany gets to sit down with fellow mental health professionals and have real talk about our work!
Available to listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other apps. Available to watch on YouTube! Follow the Instagram page for updates.
Bethany’s Links:
Say Hello to Your Therapist Instagram
Other socials:
Find more from Anna:
Free Find A Great Therapist Guide
Her Website
Her Podcast (Apple)
Her Podcast (Spotify)
Things & people we talked about:
Movies: Freaky Friday therapy scene, Babbadook, Good Boy
Transcript
Bethany Valenti 1:59
welcome Anna.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:01
Hi, Beth. Thank you for having me.
Bethany Valenti 2:04
I'm so excited you're here. I am wondering, can you share a little bit about basically how you became to be a therapist?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:12
Sure. Absolutely. I'm originally from Russia and
Bethany Valenti 2:15
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:16
to the US when I was 18 to go to college.
Bethany Valenti 2:19
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:19
college I took both a psychology major and a major in business administration. then I wanted to go into psychology straight away, but my family was like, maybe finance or accounting or something like that would be better. I shouldn't have listened. But at the time I was a young, impressionable woman, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna go into the business side of things.
Bethany Valenti 2:39
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:40
worked in public accounting, I worked in finance in the mortgage industry for 12 years before deciding that it was not a good fit for me.
Bethany Valenti 2:50
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:50
to be a therapist. Yeah. I ended
Bethany Valenti 2:52
Hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 2:53
stairwell at my job because I hated it so much.
Bethany Valenti 2:56
Yeah, you made it 12 years. I don't know if I would have.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 3:00
It was a long time.
Bethany Valenti 3:01
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 3:02
and I think that's, a different story for a different day. But
Bethany Valenti 3:05
Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 3:06
we stay in situations where we're clearly miserable and because we may not see a way out or
Bethany Valenti 3:12
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 3:13
how do I move forward? And finally when I was in my mid thirties, I decided, no, it's time to move forward. I went to grad school for social work. I became a licensed clinical social worker after that, once I got all my hours, and now I've been working as a psychotherapist for five years, five plus
Bethany Valenti 3:30
Wow. No more crying in the stairwell.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 3:33
It's such a refreshing view. I mean, I'm not gonna say like that. I always have a great day. Sometimes as you know, our clients come in with something really heavy and afterwards you're like, okay, now I feel heavy. I have to do something to, you know, as far as self-care goes. But that's no, that's nothing. Compared to actually hating your job. I love my job.
Bethany Valenti 3:55
I love that. That's nothing compared to hating your job. Powerful stuff You just spend so much time doing the work that you do, and if you're miserable, it's soul sucking.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 4:07
It is. If you think about it, like if you work 40 hours a week, which I know most therapists don't actually see 40 clients a week, we see like 20, 25, and then the rest is admin work. but if you work 40 hours a week and you're miserable, oh my God, that a third of your day, five days a week, you know, that's going to have an effect on your whole life.
Bethany Valenti 4:29
Yeah. And for anyone who's listening who thinks we should be seeing 40 a week, I would invite you to find a therapist who can cope and live like that.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 4:42
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 4:44
It's rough times.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 4:46
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 4:46
you're, you would be working more because of all the other expectations that we have, and then
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 4:50
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 4:51
it is, it does take energy to talk to people and to do it well and to provide support
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 4:58
Absolutely. Like thinking back to being in finance, like you sit at your computer, but you could spend some time on your phone, go on social media a little bit, maybe read something. You're not, you're going to the water cooler, you're talking to your coworkers. You're not working like actually doing work 40 hours a week. And I know that's not the same for everybody. There are people out there working like 50 plus hours a week and really actually working, but in my
Bethany Valenti 5:22
Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 5:22
that was not the case.
Bethany Valenti 5:24
Yeah. More power to them as well.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 5:26
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 5:27
So, yeah, and I think one of the things that would be interesting, 'cause we were wanting to talk about red flags and green flags for finding a therapist. I mean, to me, if, and I talked about this with Amber, she mentioned somebody who she saw in her episode who had all the credentials, did all the things, seemed really great, but was seeing over 40 clients a week in order to make ends meet because of her being on insurance, if I remember right. And I'm guessing just trying to keep up with things and, that sort of, I think for her was a red flag because the connection wasn't there. So,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 6:11
Yeah, absolutely. I would agree that that's a red flag. If your therapist is seeing many clients a week, they're just not going to have the emotional capacity for any one of those clients. Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 6:24
you focus a little bit on, in some of the work that you do, 'cause you have your own audience and everything to share what to look out for with a therapist and what kind of questions to ask.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 6:36
Top red flags. So before I go into specific red flags, want to say a couple of things, if you don't mind.
Bethany Valenti 6:46
do it. Let's back it up. I'm excited.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 6:48
Okay.
Bethany Valenti 6:49
I told you my, I'm not as regulated as I would like to be right now. So whatever groundwork you wanna lay, I'm here for. 'cause my brain's not giving it right now.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 7:01
afternoon brain.
Bethany Valenti 7:02
My afternoon brain. Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 7:05
so, so yeah, I just, wanna say that first when it comes to being in session with a therapist, there is a difference between normal discomfort during therapy and then something that's a red flag.
Bethany Valenti 7:18
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 7:19
a lot of therapy, especially like if we're talking about EMDR or other therapy, that really gets into your memories about past things that might be traumatic, you're going to feel not so great. You might feel challenged, you might feel stretched or emotionally raw afterwards because it's stirring up those old patterns and behaviors. That is not a red flag,
Bethany Valenti 7:42
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 7:43
if you at any point in therapy feel unsafe, belittled, manipulated, or just you leave the therapy feeling worse about who you are, not just what you're processing and what happened to you, that would be a red flag. So I kind of just
Bethany Valenti 7:59
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 8:00
normal
Bethany Valenti 8:01
No.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 8:02
from a red flag.
Bethany Valenti 8:03
it's a super important distinction to make as well. the way I like to put it to people is that therapy is the space where you feel comfortable being uncomfortable.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 8:15
Yeah. I love that, that is such, I think we can summarize the whole episode in that tagline, you should put it in there.
Bethany Valenti 8:25
Well, I'll see if I can make that happen. I appreciate it. yeah, but it's a very simplified way of putting it, right? Like it can be really hard for us to. Distinguish between that kind of discomfort versus feeling like you're being pushed in therapy. You know,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 8:43
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 8:43
when we are in training, we're taught to really reflect on like what we are doing, how we might be impacting the client. and I think sometimes we get clients that are like, it's all my fault. And then there are some clients that really do look to therapists of like, you are pushing me too hard or this and that. Some are just more vocal than others and it can be really, really hard, to speak up even with in your therapeutic relationship and being honest with that.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 9:12
And I think this is why it's important to have an episode about this is because you're a therapist, whether you like it or not, is going to be in a certain position of power. And that's what they teach us in grad school.
Bethany Valenti 9:24
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 9:25
are there as a temporary attachment figure for the client. You are serving as somebody who they see as having more knowledge. Even though we, you know, we guide the client not necessarily with advice. We let them guide themselves. We just support them in it, but they definitely see you as somebody in the position of power over them. I mean, they're telling you. Their, most raw stories and how they really feel uncovering their emotions with you in session. So absolutely. I feel like feeling comfortable with a therapist is so important.
Bethany Valenti 9:59
Yeah. that's always really number one. And that's also just such a personal individual thing that you'll get. But I think I've had many therapists over the years and even ones that I didn't feel like I fully clicked with, like one was assigned to me in this clinical practice when I was in grad school. I. Still feel like I got something out of it, even though I wasn't sure if he was necessarily for me per se. And I didn't feel unsafe and I felt like I could speak up and that I was heard when that happened. And then I've had other therapeutic relationships that I left, one in particular where I did not feel like I was seen or heard. and that's really meaningful.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 10:52
Absolutely. in general, I would like your listeners to keep this in mind that there's research showing that quality of the relationship you have with your therapist is seven times more important to having successful outcomes in therapy than the kind of therapy they're using.
Bethany Valenti 11:09
Mm. seven times
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:12
Seven times Yep.
Bethany Valenti 11:15
Yeah, that's not nothing. That's a lot.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:18
it's not.
Bethany Valenti 11:19
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:19
with that mind,
Bethany Valenti 11:21
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:22
maybe I can tell you, some things at first that kind of look like red flags when
Bethany Valenti 11:26
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:27
the stage of searching for a therapist, But they actually aren't.
Bethany Valenti 11:31
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:32
Because I think that a lot Of people might get caught up on those, and I just want 'em to know that that's not necessarily a red flag. So the first one is going to be a lack of testimonials or Google reviews
Bethany Valenti 11:43
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 11:45
a lot of people don't realize this, but we're not allowed to ask clients for reviews. it's in most states against the law, and it's definitely against our, ethical code.
Bethany Valenti 11:53
Ethical code. Yeah. I was gonna say ethically, but also legally. absolutely. We could get in big trouble.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 12:00
So
Bethany Valenti 12:00
many times I have clients who are like, oh, you're so great, da da da. And in my head I'm like, could you put that in writing?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 12:07
Yeah. Yeah, that's
Bethany Valenti 12:10
I can't,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 12:11
asterisk. Like, Hey, if your therapist is great, please do give them a Google review or a testimonial. That'll be fantastic. They are
Bethany Valenti 12:17
just not
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 12:18
allowed to ask you for one.
Bethany Valenti 12:19
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 12:20
a result, yeah, we often hear that in session about how like, oh my God, you've really helped me change my whole life. But then they don't go and write a Google review, so that's not a red flag. it would be kind of the opposite if you see a lot of reviews that may be, I don't wanna say it's a red flag, if they come from colleagues who don't really sound like they know the person.
Bethany Valenti 12:39
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 12:39
you can have colleagues who know you really well. I went to, a postgraduate institute where we got to observe each other do therapy. There was like a two-way mirror where we would do it on Zoom during COVID. And so they actually saw me doing therapy with clients live and they can give me a really thorough review. But sometimes you might ask a colleague and they don't really know you that well,
Bethany Valenti 13:03
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 13:04
the review is pretty generic sounding, you know, maybe it's not the best one.
Bethany Valenti 13:09
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 13:10
in general, that lack of Google reviews is not going to be a red flag.
Bethany Valenti 13:14
I even think that on the flip side, if there are several reviews and one happens to be negative or something, it taking that kind of with a grain of salt. Because in the work that we do, as you were sort of saying, we are not, not only, we're not allowed to solicit reviews. We really can't say anything to people. We have confidentiality. Confidentiality is the ultimate law. So we can't respond to any review, no matter what it says.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 13:45
So if you see a one star review for a therapist, there's even been cases that I've seen in multiple Facebook groups for therapists where somebody leaves them a negative review and it's not a client they've ever had. Maybe they're using a fake name, who knows. But on Google that's not,
Bethany Valenti 14:02
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 14:03
do? And everybody tells me you can't respond.
Bethany Valenti 14:05
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 14:06
write is I can either deny or confirm this person is a client.
Bethany Valenti 14:10
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 14:10
That's all you can say.
Bethany Valenti 14:12
Absolutely. I just thinking about how we have people these days, ever since everything is online, sometimes reviews are a way of like kind of retaliation or hurting each other,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 14:24
Yeah,
Bethany Valenti 14:27
I haven't seen that, and I've been very fortunate not to run into that personally, but I could totally see how that could be used.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 14:36
absolutely. For somebody with, a lack of ethics,
Bethany Valenti 14:38
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 14:39
do that to a colleague. it doesn't happen, but I have a suspicion that it probably does.
Bethany Valenti 14:45
I'm even thinking about, I have a family member who had somebody like, not do a review on them, but contact their place of work to be like, this is who works here. And it wasn't what we're seeing a lot of now of like, this person is racist or this person, you know, some
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:06
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 15:07
that is also documentable too. It was just, hey, you should know that this person sucks kinda thing.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:12
gosh.
Bethany Valenti 15:13
And it, so it was really problematic. And so can you imagine if someone has a business or something like that in the world with everything that's so accessible
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:21
Yeah,
Bethany Valenti 15:22
And the world of miscommunication
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:23
absolutely. And then another thing that I think a lot of people think might be a red flag, but it really isn't, is if the therapist is either pre-licensed. Or just newly minted, they just got their license because
Bethany Valenti 15:36
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:37
need quite a lot of hours, like thousands of hours depending
Bethany Valenti 15:41
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:41
you have to become licensed.
Bethany Valenti 15:44
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 15:44
then, you have a supervisor who covers you with their license and provides supervision to you so you know what you're doing. You can ask for advice from them. and then once you're newly minted, newly licensed therapist, yes, you are going to have less experience as somebody with like five plus years of experience. But what I often have found is those pre-licensed and newly licensed therapists. Are so eager about new trainings, new research, they're reading everything. They're fresh out of school, so they just got all of this refreshed material, not something from 20 years ago. So you really kind of have to approach it with discernment and say, okay, does this therapist sound like they've done some new trainings and read some research recently? Or are they still parroting something from 20 years ago that we know not to be true anymore?
Bethany Valenti 16:33
Yeah. I was thinking that too. especially for certain. degrees. It can be a long time before you can get licensed yourself. 'cause I forget, are you an LPC and
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 16:46
I'm an LCSW.
Bethany Valenti 16:48
LCSW. Okay. So sometimes the schooling is shorter for that, but then you have all of this extra training that you get before you're on your own. So they make sure, so you are really like experienced once you got that license. Right. And then for me, you get a lot of training and a lot of supervision before you graduate. And you might then, once you're finally graduated, get the license a little bit quicker. but really it's really ensuring that they have enough experience on either side.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:18
Yes, exactly.
Bethany Valenti 17:20
It doesn't necessarily speak to. The work that they do. as long as it's in the mental health field. So the degrees we're looking for are
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:28
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 17:28
like psychologist, you, you just said what? LCSW. So licensed clinical social worker. Social worker. LPC. So that is the licensed
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:37
Counselor, professional counselor.
Bethany Valenti 17:39
and there's even more there, depending on what state you're in.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:43
You can have a
Bethany Valenti 17:44
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:44
licensed marriage and family therapist. You can
Bethany Valenti 17:46
That's the one I was thinking of.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:48
counselor.
Bethany Valenti 17:48
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:49
licenses that people can have. And largely, this is maybe another thing that might look like a red flag but
Bethany Valenti 17:55
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 17:55
largely it doesn't matter what kind of license they have, unless you are looking for a licensed marriage and family therapist. 'cause you have a very specific issue that would benefit from family or couples therapy. You
Bethany Valenti 18:06
Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 18:06
But other than that, I don't think it really matters.
Bethany Valenti 18:09
Yeah. That's a really good point though. what else? Do you have any other ones that might look like red flags?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 18:13
the last one that might look like a red flag but isn't, is not having a large web presence. therapists are busy people, especially if they are, you know, if they're seeing quite a lot of clients, They're staying busy with trainings. I think that a minimum, they should have a website that tells you who they are and what they do.
Bethany Valenti 18:33
Ya need something. They gotta be somewhere.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 18:35
right. Like you have to get a feel for them, they're gonna have a directory entry maybe on like Psychology Today
Bethany Valenti 18:41
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 18:41
number of the other directories or have a website. 'cause that's how you can get to know them a little bit before you even decide to give them a call for a consultation. But like, not being on Instagram all the time, not being on Facebook or other type of social media, I think that's totally fine. as a matter of fact, I would say it's a rare therapist that can do all of those things at once and still pay attention to their clients and their trainings.
Bethany Valenti 19:06
Yeah, and do it well.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:07
Exactly. So if you don't see them everywhere, that's not a red flag.
Bethany Valenti 19:11
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:12
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 19:13
it is kind of, I think, a debate for some providers of whether or not you need a website, and I think these days, because there's so much online, we're getting more and more encouragement to have a website, or some sort of online presence. You're definitely not gonna get found, but they may not have their own website if they're in a group practice as well.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:30
own, but they should be listed under
Bethany Valenti 19:32
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:33
team, our clinicians, some kind of section on the group practice
Bethany Valenti 19:36
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:37
so you
Bethany Valenti 19:37
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:37
more about
Bethany Valenti 19:38
and licenses are verifiable, like you can look those up on.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:43
Every state has some kind of database that's online that you can just Google, like Colorado therapist license lookup, and it's gonna come up. You can look them up by name and see if they actually have an active license.
Bethany Valenti 19:55
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:56
is really like step number one,
Bethany Valenti 19:58
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 19:58
out.
Bethany Valenti 19:59
the license part really says whether or not they can do, like the clinical work. You don't necessarily have to have a license to teach. I know some people don't. Is coaching does not fall under license, or It does. I still get, I,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 20:11
not have
Bethany Valenti 20:12
I need, we need to do an episode on coaching and what it is and what it is not. 'cause I'm confused by it. I get it conceptually, but I'm confused by it.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 20:22
there are a lot of coaches out there who unfortunately operate outside of their scope which as a therapist, if you do that, you can get in trouble even legally. As a coach, you really can't,
Bethany Valenti 20:32
Yeah. to be a coach, you don't need to be a mental health person. It's really just someone who's decided I would like to help people.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 20:42
That's right. And I personally have had some coaches who have been amazing, Like my enneagram coach was.
Bethany Valenti 20:48
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 20:49
Super good. I would recommend her to anybody.
Bethany Valenti 20:52
That's cool.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 20:52
but then I've also heard of coaches who were not so good and they started doing things more like therapy where they weren't qualified to do that.
Bethany Valenti 21:00
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:01
it can go either way with coaches.
Bethany Valenti 21:03
That's a whole other world. Not what we're necessarily here for today, but just little something to be mindful of. Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:09
Put a pin in it,
Bethany Valenti 21:10
Put a pin in that. Do some Googling checking or come back for another episode. So
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:16
Back to red flags.
Bethany Valenti 21:18
red flags.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:19
So the,
Bethany Valenti 21:20
So we did the ones that might look like ones but aren't really ones. they're just flags. They're not even a color.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:25
Yeah. They're just there. Somebody sitting there waving them, they don't
Bethany Valenti 21:28
Yeah,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:29
That's totally true. but when it comes to like actual red flags, one that I see quite regularly is a therapist who's going to list every possible issue is their specialty, either in the directory they're on or in their website,
Bethany Valenti 21:44
yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:44
kind of being either really generic about what they address. Like just saying, you know, like, oh, I work with anxiety and depression. Well, we all work with anxiety and depression to a certain degree
Bethany Valenti 21:54
Better.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 21:55
you have an eating disorder, you're probably gonna be depressed. you have ADHD, you probably are going to be anxious. So it's like generic things that unless they tell you more about the specific population they work with, you don't really have a good idea of what they're about. And that issue of listing every possible thing as your specialty, I mean. you cannot specialize in everything.
Bethany Valenti 22:19
Yeah, especially when it comes to the word specialty. You might be able to work with some of those things, but if it goes beyond a certain level of expertise, then you really can't say it's their main specialty, which is why, for instance, psychology Today has you pick your top three and everything, and so if they're just really checking all of the boxes to be able to try and cast a wide net, I could see that. Yeah. Being an absolute red flag.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 22:44
Yeah, And one of my biggest pet peeves
Bethany Valenti 22:48
Hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 22:48
therapists without specialized training on how to work with couples or families who then work with couples or families.
Bethany Valenti 22:56
No, I'm terrified of that. I'm like, don't bring 'em to me. I do not have the expertise. I do not have the training.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 23:02
I am like honestly shocked by how many therapists just get your regular license without going into any extra training for couples or families
Bethany Valenti 23:10
Hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 23:11
couples and families. I'm like, no, it's a very complex system and I think you should either be a licensed marriage and family therapist, an LMFT, or if you're not, you should be able to say, okay, what are you trained in? Like for example, I'm trained in emotionally focused therapy or EFT, I'm trained in the Gottman method. Those are the two main ones I use with couples. There's also pact, there's relational therapy. Those are like the major four I would say. There's some others too. But yeah, without those kind of trainings, which are very intensive, they take months and some of them take years. you're really not qualified to work with a system like couples or a family.
Bethany Valenti 23:52
Yeah. I've just, even on a very like, small scale, just picturing like I know how to do the one person in the one room.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 24:01
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 24:02
Well, I'm sorry, that's not true. I've, wow. Forget that. I love working with groups, but like, that's different than working with a couple or a family. there's so much more history there in what you're working with in terms of the systems background,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 24:20
Yeah. And there's a lot more relational stuff that goes on that interplay between the, two partners or family members, because in a group, most of us had at least one class in grad school about working with groups.
Bethany Valenti 24:34
Yes. At least.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 24:35
But working with couples and families, unless you took like an elective or you are a licensed marriage and family therapist, which they have a separate
Bethany Valenti 24:43
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 24:44
you don't really know how to do that.
Bethany Valenti 24:47
Yeah. I think groups too. You are a lot more likely to get in just your training outside of classes as well. If you're doing internships and practicum, there's different words for it that people that different professions use. so you're more likely to get exposure and have that experience for groups
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 25:05
Right?
Bethany Valenti 25:05
quickly than couples.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 25:07
It's a whole world of its own.
Bethany Valenti 25:08
What's next? What would you say is another one?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 25:11
So this one is going to be somewhat controversial because some therapists don't agree with me,
Bethany Valenti 25:16
go.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 25:16
it's a red flag if they don't provide a free consultation before seeing you just like 15, 20 minutes. You know? And the reason it's controversial is there's a lot of therapists who go, well, I don't work for free. I just charge them for the first session. But then that's not a consultation, that's just the first session. And it's much harder than for the person to say, that wasn't a good fit than rather just meet for 15 minutes online over Zoom, see if you're a good fit. 'cause remember that fit is seven times more important than what they're actually doing in the room with you. So my opinion on that is, how can you possibly know you're a good fit if you don't spend that 15 minutes just talking and getting to know one another and kind of getting a feel for it?
Bethany Valenti 26:01
I fully agree. I have no notes. Nothing to say. Agreed. You need to be able to talk to the person
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 26:06
Yeah, like if their only criteria or fit with you is whether, they take your insurance, that's not enough. I know that a lot of people are limited of what
Bethany Valenti 26:16
Yeah,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 26:17
offers as far as like what therapist they can work with, but you should be able to say, okay, great. You take my insurance, let's talk further. Let me interview you. 'cause let me make it clear that 15 minute consultation is you, the client interviewing the therapist. They're gonna ask you questions to find out more about what you wanna work on and what you're looking for, but see it as like they're trying to get a job with you.
Bethany Valenti 26:41
yeah, I also think back to whether or not they may have much of an online presence, so this might really be the first exposure that you could get to them. If they do have a lot of presence and you feel like you have a vibe of them, and you could just. Schedule with them, more power to you. You know, like if you feel that comfortable and you feel like if something was off, you could step out of that comfortably, safely, whatever, then by all means. But oftentimes you still kind of wanna make sure that they can respond to you in the way that you need.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 27:12
Absolutely.
Bethany Valenti 27:13
for me as well, we're making sure in the consultation that we're on the same page about not just like what's going on, if we're a good fit, but also before I'm getting off the phone, we have a discussion about finances. Like, I need you to hear me say my fee or for us to figure out like the insurance situation to make sure you know what you're consenting to. so. Unless it's somebody who really is just actually had somebody who reached out to me and I said, okay, well normally I, I do a call. and they just wanted to schedule with me. And I said, okay. So I put all the crucial stuff in in an email
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 27:54
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 27:55
and was willing The only reason I would see it as not a red flag if they're not doing that, is that they're just saying, I'll do the first appointment with you. And then we're using that kind of like in a consult. And I know that some therapists will do that. I've only really heard of one who says that they'll do it that way. and that's just making sure, they're getting paid, you know, that they don't work for free. if that works for their practice, then more power to them. And if that was how they were managing it, it would be more meaningful to me that they, had an online presence potentially. And that they handled that first appointment really well.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 28:32
They have to make it clear to the client that it's okay to say no to working with them in the
Bethany Valenti 28:38
yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 28:38
if it's not a good fit.
Bethany Valenti 28:40
Yes. the other point that I wanna make is that their fee should also be listed online so you know what you're getting into for that first appointment. Even if I'm not signing on for long term, I know I'm at least paying, like all that stuff is upfront and you're doing all your paperwork up front so you're able to read through all the disclaimers or whatever notes that they have.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 29:00
A hundred percent agree with you.
Bethany Valenti 29:03
what other flags come to mind?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 29:05
Okay, so say you're doing that consultation or first session, and give you some kind of a guarantee.
Bethany Valenti 29:13
Oh,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 29:14
oh,
Bethany Valenti 29:14
yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 29:15
take 10 sessions and then you'll be fine. Or we can work together for six months, and then you should like any kind of guarantee about length of treatment and what kind of results you're going to get. Again, for most of us, it's unlawful to do that, and at the
Bethany Valenti 29:29
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 29:29
it's unethical to give a guarantee.
Bethany Valenti 29:32
Yeah, and that is different than saying, this is how long I usually work with people or like, I tend to do EMDR for this many sessions, like that's the protocol, but blah, blah, blah. If they're saying, no, absolutely you will have X, Y, and Z in this number of sessions, that would be a red flag for sure.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 29:51
Right. Because they should, like, if you ask them, Hey, can you give me an example of results that a client that's similar to me has gotten? That's a great question to ask because they should be able to do that without breaking confidentiality. That's like things to watch out for. If they start talking in detail about a client, that's not good,
Bethany Valenti 30:09
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 30:10
but they should be able to give you a general sense of, okay, I did work with a client, let's say with an eating disorder, and they saw improvement within probably eight months, and they still needed to do a lot of work on their trauma afterwards, but their eating disorder did improve after about eight months. I cannot guarantee that for you, but that's what happened for that client.
Bethany Valenti 30:32
Right,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 30:33
that.
Bethany Valenti 30:34
absolutely, and like improve is relative, that's individual to the person,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 30:38
Yep.
Bethany Valenti 30:39
they started feeling more comfortable with this. They were able to do, you know, some sort of example of how an outcome shifted.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 30:47
Exactly, exactly. You're hitting the nail on the head. and then another red flag is that can appear both in consultation or during the first few sessions or really any session I would say is if they don't explain what they're doing, like they don't explain their methods or what they're trying to do with you. because part of being trauma informed, is kind of
Bethany Valenti 31:08
Yeah,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:08
clarity about, okay, this is the kind of therapy I use. This is what it looks like. This is what you can expect during a typical session of let's say EMDR or brain spotting. and then in session, have you ever had a doctor, for example, who just goes to touch you somewhere without telling you they're going to touch you
Bethany Valenti 31:26
Yeah. They just,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:27
that's a big deal.
Bethany Valenti 31:29
just doing things
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:31
Right, exactly.
Bethany Valenti 31:33
all right. I
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:34
informed.
Bethany Valenti 31:35
guess the touching portion of the exam has started.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:38
Yep.
Bethany Valenti 31:39
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:39
give you a heads up. That does not feel good, even to a person
Bethany Valenti 31:42
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 31:42
Without trauma and to a person with a history of trauma that can be downright triggering.
Bethany Valenti 31:47
I think it's really meaningful when you have someone that you work with that is at bare minimum informing you or just like, here's what I'm thinking, or Let me give you a heads up about what I'm about to do or checking in, even if,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 32:01
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 32:02
you know, I'm super client centered, so I'm usually just sort of like, what do you think? A lot of the time
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 32:07
in that, that leads us to our next red flag, which is making the session about themselves and giving you way too much self-disclosure.
Bethany Valenti 32:15
Right? And okay, so what's the line for that? Because some therapeutic orientations, like some approaches do encourage self-disclosure. So how do we know that? It's like, I think usually clients that I've worked with who have come in and been able to say like, oh, this person was just really always talking about their kids, or, there's sort of a line with self disclosure that feels like. Beyond what would be helpful or normal.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 32:41
Yeah,
Bethany Valenti 32:41
I do know that the longer I work with some clients or some clients, it doesn't even take that long. They do like having more of a back and forth in the relationship, so they do wanna see pictures of my kids. They don't mind that a cat is crawling all over me.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 32:54
that humanizes you. Right?
Bethany Valenti 32:55
right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 32:56
a different kind of self-disclosure. Like if you're just kinda, building that therapeutic connection and,
Bethany Valenti 33:03
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 33:04
and you're talking about, oh yeah, you know, your kids are in college, so are mine. That's one thing.
Bethany Valenti 33:09
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 33:10
you client comes to you and they just went through a divorce and they need to talk about it, and they say like, oh, I went through the same thing, let tell you all about it,
Bethany Valenti 33:16
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 33:17
That's the kind of
Bethany Valenti 33:18
usually when I'm self-disclosing, I'll say, sometimes I'll be like, do you wanna know, or I'll ask, or sometimes I'll start and you can just, I would guess that it would be observable for me too, like. That I've slowed down a little bit because I'm thinking about how much I wanna share.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 33:34
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 33:35
or I'll say I'm sharing because this is how I feel like it connects back. there's usually reasons for me to do that.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 33:43
Yes, you have to be very intentional about it. And in general, like the rule of thumb is if you're self-disclosing because it's benefiting your client in some way, then that should be okay as long as you keep it relatively short and don't go into like 20 minutes of self-disclosure.
Bethany Valenti 33:59
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 33:59
if you're doing it to kind of help yourself, then that's not okay.
Bethany Valenti 34:04
I think, and it's an individual person, like someone might really appreciate that they're working with someone who's also been through a divorce
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 34:12
Right.
Bethany Valenti 34:12
You know, that could be really helpful. One of the things I self disclose about a ton with all of my grief clients is that I have lost both of my parents and other relatives at different times of my life. And I usually just am able to keep it at that. And that tends to be enough. And then if something comes up later, they'll be able to tell. 'cause they'll say, oh yeah, how about blah, blah, blah? You know? And they're like, yes. and so there really doesn't need to be that much in order to connect you. Also, sometimes I, like you said, humanizing is so meaningful that, that contributes to the relationship. If, you know, if a client comes in and they are also super into, I don't know, I just saw a trailer or some sort of we gotta move.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 34:57
Wars is a great example of that.
Bethany Valenti 34:58
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 34:59
I like Star Wars. If I have a fellow, and I'm gonna use that word very positively, a fellow nerd come in,
Bethany Valenti 35:05
Oh yes. I use nerve
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 35:06
yeah.
Bethany Valenti 35:07
Only Positive.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 35:08
Wars to connect and then we can talk about trauma,
Bethany Valenti 35:11
Yeah. Yeah. Stranger Things just came out with a trailer. Like, that's pretty cool. That's pretty exciting. Yeah, self-disclosure is meaningful. We wanna feel like we can connect with people. but once it goes beyond and you're just like, huh. If you're starting to ask yourself, what's the point of this? Or, I thought we were here for me, that's, that's kind of of note, you know? But if you're someone who thinks that a therapist should not be sharing, there will be, there's a therapist out there for you. And if you want it to be about you the whole time, then that's totally fine.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 35:43
Right. in grad school, for a lot of people, depending on the theoretical orientation they're going for, but for a lot of people, they will teach you how to be what we call a blank slate.
Bethany Valenti 35:53
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 35:54
you don't self close you, the client is the only focus of the appointment. You are kind of just there as a blank blank slate reflecting what they're saying, et cetera. that only works to a certain degree
Bethany Valenti 36:05
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 36:06
you come off as a robot, you know, and you don't
Bethany Valenti 36:08
Yes. I think we need to have some practice being a blank slate because then we really learn how to listen more effectively. we learn very quickly about if you don't or if you don't know this coming into grad school, it's a very helpful tool to be like, don't give them anything. You're here to be there for them. so it's very meaningful to practice,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 36:32
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 36:32
it can hurt the relationship if you totally withdraw and erase yourself as a human from the room.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 36:39
right. You shouldn't do that. Absolutely.
Bethany Valenti 36:43
I know for a fact that I have clients that really like it when I'm like, what the fuck? if I have a very genuine reaction to what they're talking about that's validating and. So because I've had that positive reaction, I've really allowed that to come through more. people can tell when you're being fake, you know?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 37:04
Absolutely. There's a reason. There's that stereotype of a therapist just continually asking, and how does that make you feel? if you do that over and over again, you're gonna come off as somebody who's not genuine.
Bethany Valenti 37:16
Yeah, there's, I haven't seen the sequel, but the original Freaky Friday. Okay, excuse me. The remake Freaky Friday, so I have not seen the Original Freaky Friday. I have not seen the newest Freaky Friday, but the one that was remaking the original with Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan, when they switch, Jamie Lee Curtis plays a therapist in that film and they switch, and so she's like, you have to go to work because it's a movie. In any other reality, we would be like, we're calling in today.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 37:45
Yes.
Bethany Valenti 37:46
I don't think I'm gonna ethically be okay with sending my teenage daughter
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 37:50
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 37:50
to be a therapist. I think that teenage daughter could pretend to be a therapist calling their client over and over again to reschedule or cancel for the week. But there's a scene where she's like telling her like, when you go, all you have to do is like, whatever they say, just saying nod. And then how do you feel about that? And they show her actually doing it. And it's so funny to see where it's effective and where it's not actually, it's kind of fun. Every now and then, I wonder if a client's gonna look at me and be like, you really just pulled that one out. You know, but like, how does that make you feel? I wanna know, this is information that we still need to know. But if that's all you're doing. That's, that's not what we're here for.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 38:31
Red flag. Yes,
Bethany Valenti 38:33
If you are with a therapist that is acting like Jamie Lee Curtis from the body switching scene in Freaky Friday, then that's a problem.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 38:45
Yeah. And like as you can see, like some of these red flags are going to be nuanced, right? And another one is like if your therapist gives you direct advice, rather than letting you decide what you want to do and reflecting on your emotions and stuff. for example, let's say you're talking about your boyfriend and you're not sure if he's a good fit for you, and they just go, oh, you should just break up with him.
Bethany Valenti 39:09
You got friends that'll say that to you. You didn't come to therapy for that advice.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 39:14
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 39:14
friend statement. And even then, plenty of my clients have issue with that being the friend statement because that's, they don't wanna necessarily just dump them. It takes a long time to dump 'em sometimes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 39:26
Oh yeah, yeah. There might be any number of reasons why
Bethany Valenti 39:28
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 39:29
That's not appropriate right now. A therapist should help you explore that situation in your life, Explore your needs, your emotions, your fears about it. and they might like, they might go as close as they should come to giving you direct advice, in my opinion, is kind of like posing the question as well. I wonder what would it be like
Bethany Valenti 39:50
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 39:50
if you didn't have this person in your life? What would your life look like? Because that's exploring it. That's not giving direct advice.
Bethany Valenti 39:56
Yeah. Or what do you get out of this relationship, I think is one that I've asked
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:01
That's a great one.
Bethany Valenti 40:02
Or
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:02
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 40:03
do you feel like you're getting your needs met?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:05
Yeah, I had, a client who came to me once and she said that during the first, phone consultation with a potential therapist, the client started talking about how she was struggling with a husband who was drinking too much and the therapist and that first consultation went, oh honey, he's never gonna change. You should just dump him.
Bethany Valenti 40:24
It sounds like something, a mother-in-law or your mom or somebody would say again, a friend statement. Oh,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:31
Or somebody who has their own baggage regarding that topic,
Bethany Valenti 40:36
in the first, interaction is the,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:40
first interaction.
Bethany Valenti 40:41
in the free consultation.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:43
Yes.
Bethany Valenti 40:44
advice in the free consultation.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:47
client recognized that it's been inappropriate. That's why she told me the story.
Bethany Valenti 40:51
She's like, get a load of this, Anna.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 40:54
Exactly. And then like another red flag is you have some therapists who tend to pathologize everything
Bethany Valenti 41:01
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 41:02
they're not necessarily going to do that to the client's face about the client, although they might, and
Bethany Valenti 41:06
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 41:07
But like let's say you're telling them a story about your father and they're like, oh, well he's clearly a narcissist. Or your mother's clearly borderline like making sweep in generalizations like that. The father might be a narcissist and the mother might have borderline personality disorder, but they don't know that. Again, it's about exploring that thinking. What does the client think about that? Do they think their father's a narcissist? Well let's explore that.
Bethany Valenti 41:32
Yeah. Yeah. Again, no notes. I fully agree with that.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 41:37
Right. then the last one that I can come up with that's gonna be a big red flag, even though I'm sure there are many more, is if they don't have good boundaries.
Bethany Valenti 41:47
hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 41:48
And what I mean by that is, could be really in a number of things, but for example, they might text you really late in the evening. they might ask you to hang out socially, which is a big no-no. Or like add you as a friend on social media. Big No-no, we're not supposed to do that. Don't ever like ask your therapist to add you as a friend. And if they add you first, that's a big red flag. maybe they're like, especially like I, I actually have had a client that had happened to, a therapist. So the client lost a bit of weight and she had trouble like with her body image and the therapist said, oh, you look so nice, you lost so, so much weight can seem innocuous. But to that client, it really cut deep and she, it gave her the message of you should lose weight,
Bethany Valenti 42:31
Yeah, it reinforces that. Absolutely.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 42:34
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so those boundaries, like, if they are flexible with their schedule and they're like, you know what? Normally I don't see people on the weekend, but I'll see you this weekend. It could be okay if you're in a crisis. Absolutely. But it could also be because they don't have good boundaries and they need to model those boundaries to you, the client, so that you know it's not okay to text your therapist at night. You know, it's not okay to expect them to give you a free session outta nowhere.
Bethany Valenti 43:02
let's talk about green flags.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:04
green
Bethany Valenti 43:05
do you have any green flags?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:06
I do. It would be unfair to us therapist if I just gave you red flags
Bethany Valenti 43:10
do.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:10
you some green flags.
Bethany Valenti 43:11
Agreed.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:12
Yeah, so the one, and some of them are going to be kind of similar to the red flags, but the opposite. So I'm trying to minimize those and just give you some of the ones that aren't that.
Bethany Valenti 43:23
Fair.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:24
the first one we really need to talk about is they stay within their scope of practice.
Bethany Valenti 43:28
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:29
their scope of practice is important. for example, like I don't specialize in eating disorder, so if somebody comes to me with an eating disorder, I'm gonna refer them out,
Bethany Valenti 43:38
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 43:38
that's a good green flag. If this therapist, either during a consultation or during the first few sessions goes, you know what? I don't actually think I'm the right person to help you. Let me give you some names of people who might be a better fit for you.
Bethany Valenti 43:53
Yeah. Or even just making note of like, just so you know, this is not my area of specialty. I say that a lot. I'll say, I am speaking outside of my wheelhouse and we would want to consult or all that kind of stuff.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 44:05
Right. 'cause they might wanna work with you for a different reason, even if you don't specialize in what they need to treat. I know Colorado is a pretty white state. There's not a lot of diversity, especially in therapists.
Bethany Valenti 44:16
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 44:17
let's say if you are black and you find a black therapist, you might wanna work with them because they're gonna know what it's like for you to go through experiences of racism and oppression
Bethany Valenti 44:27
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 44:27
oppressions and all of that. And that might be more important to you than the specific issue you want to work on.
Bethany Valenti 44:34
Mm-hmm. That's such a good point. What other green flags?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 44:37
so another one, we kind of touched on this already, but they should be able to explain their approach clearly and give you examples of some results their clients were able to achieve and what you can expect, not a guarantee, but like, for example, I use EMDR, which can help
Bethany Valenti 44:53
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 44:53
trauma with bilateral stimulation. So you would say, here's what that looks like in a session.
Bethany Valenti 44:58
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 44:59
an example of what you might feel like after a session. 'cause with EMDR, it, sometimes it's not always positive.
Bethany Valenti 45:04
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:05
So just explaining what they're doing. It's a part of being trauma informed, you know, telling you what they're about to do in session if they're trying something new with you. Then, another one is they should be somebody who welcomes questions and feedback from you.
Bethany Valenti 45:20
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:21
yeah, like questions at any point in time during the consultation, during your sessions, if the client has a question of like, why are we doing this and how is this helpful to me? They should be able to give you a reason.
Bethany Valenti 45:32
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:33
feedback, like, I often ask clients at the end of the session, I kind of do check-ins and say, how's therapy going for you so far? What notes do you have for me?
Bethany Valenti 45:41
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:41
it should be client led, not just therapist led. Like, yes, sometimes they come to you and they say, please take my hand and take me on this journey.
Bethany Valenti 45:49
Yes. Yes. Sometimes they do. They're like, I'm just along for the ride. You just tell me.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:53
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 45:54
And then some really want to have a voice in what they're doing.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:58
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 45:59
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 45:59
Absolutely. Yeah. And then your therapist should, you know, it's to go against that red flag of pathologizing everything.
Bethany Valenti 46:08
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:08
able to validate you instead of labeling like what you've been through or who you might be, or who your family members might be.
Bethany Valenti 46:16
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:16
You know? So saying something like, given what you've been through, that reaction makes a lot of sense.
Bethany Valenti 46:21
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:23
you know, they're not necessarily approving of the fact that you spilled coffee on purpose on your coworker, but they're
Bethany Valenti 46:28
Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:29
you know what, knowing what I know about you and your coworker, that makes sense.
Bethany Valenti 46:32
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:33
do you want to work on that?
Bethany Valenti 46:35
Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:35
future?
Bethany Valenti 46:36
Yeah. Would you in the future rather just spill the coffee but not on the person? You know, like what sort of progress? Are we just even trying to be able to use our words or are we trying to just be able to get up and walk out of the room? What would you like to be able to do?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 46:54
Exactly.
Bethany Valenti 46:55
These are really good. I've even just thinking about some green flags like we were talking about, of just like having them be human and letting them see you be human. I think that we get a lot of expectations for therapists to be kind of super human and like put together like all the time,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 47:15
Yeah, yeah.
Bethany Valenti 47:15
and that's just. Not really fair, but it also is just not a reality. Like the human beings that we are,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 47:24
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 47:25
can't be perfect a hundred percent of the time. And a lot of the time, I had a supervisor that was like, that was really meaningful to me when they said like, they kind of need to see you be human so that they have permission to give themselves that grace.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 47:40
absolutely. speaking of spilling coffee, there is a study where they were measuring like ability of people, like
Bethany Valenti 47:48
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 47:48
you know, and they basically had this person who would answer like trivia questions. they had two conditions where one was he would answer all the trivia questions. Correct. And in general, like appeared really competent and put together. the second one was where he did the same thing. He answered everything correctly. But this time when he stood up, he spilled coffee on himself and was like, oh, silly me. Look at me. I'm a silly goose.
Bethany Valenti 48:13
Whoops.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 48:14
that the likability drastically increased for that scenario where
Bethany Valenti 48:18
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 48:18
appeared competent, but then they did something that showed that they were human.
Bethany Valenti 48:22
I love that. So true.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 48:24
Yeah. I use that example. Often when I work with social anxiety, I'm like,
Bethany Valenti 48:28
Mm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 48:29
you to be perfect.
Bethany Valenti 48:30
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 48:31
like you less if you are.
Bethany Valenti 48:32
Yeah. I think that's the reality, and if they are expecting you to be perfect, then depending on the relationship that you have with them, then that's. That's kind of different, you know,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 48:42
Exactly.
Bethany Valenti 48:43
it's a friend expecting perfection, if it's your boss expecting perfection, if it's your partner expecting perfection, like there's a lot of nuance there to what's appropriate and what is feasible Is it perfection or is it just a lot?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:00
exactly. And then I've got three more green flags for you.
Bethany Valenti 49:04
Okay. Let's go.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:05
one is they continue their own education beyond the minimum that's required to maintain their license.
Bethany Valenti 49:11
Okay. That is a green flag.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:13
yeah, for sure.
Bethany Valenti 49:15
will take that green flag.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:17
yeah, I mean, I'm obsessed with training,
Bethany Valenti 49:19
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:19
myself
Bethany Valenti 49:20
hand it right over. I'll take
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:22
the requirements might be that you take 20 continued education hours every two years. In my opinion, that's not enough.
Bethany Valenti 49:30
mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:31
just by the nature of being a curious clinician and wanting to learn more to serve your population, you're going to rack up more than those 20 hours every two years. So I think it's a big green flag when they do continue their own education. And it's okay to ask, Hey, how have you stayed updated on this topic? have you taken any recent trainings about trauma or eating disorders or whatever it is that you wanna work on?
Bethany Valenti 49:57
Okay. Two more.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 49:59
so the next one is they really should acknowledge, culture identity. That kind of context in your work together if they're never curious, like especially if you have a different cultural identity, you come from a different ethnic background or a different culture within the same country, right? Maybe you have different skin color, you have a different ethnicity, you have different gender, you have a different sexual orientation, whatever. If they never ask you with a curious tone of, Hey, how has your cultural background affected the way you see this? Has it resulted in any trauma for you? That was just purely cultural based.
Bethany Valenti 50:38
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy50:38
like that they can ask during intake and they can ask later in sessions I think are very important questions to ask.
Bethany Valenti50:46
absolutely. they need to see your whole self because again, we were talking about context and what our impression of what typical is, might vary.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy50:58
Absolutely. It's just the reality of life, especially in the United States that an experience for a white, cisgender straight person is not going to be the same as for somebody who doesn't share those identities.
Bethany Valenti51:11
Mm-hmm. One of the first things that's coming to mind, which is kind of like small potatoes, but like, if you were working with a mom from Russia. Tell me about if I'm correct about this, but like, one of the things that I didn't know about until I became a parent was something called elimination communication. And just like how much more quickly other cultures including, like for instance, Russia have their kids like potty trained by age one. and so if you have someone whose parents are from Russia and they're trying to raise like, you know. A kid and their grandparents are having a lot to say about that
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy51:48
Oh
Bethany Valenti 51:48
and just like whether or not they, that's just an example, you know what I mean? Of like, oh, like if you were just like, well, that's just ridiculous. How could they
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 51:57
Exactly.
Bethany Valenti 51:58
this child to, it's just like, I mean, not necessarily,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:02
Mm-hmm. It's just the, therapist has to stay curious rather than make assumptions, judgments, anything like that. They just need to stay curious about what was it like for you?
Bethany Valenti 52:15
we have One more.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:16
This one is, I think a really important one
Bethany Valenti 52:19
Okay.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:20
all of what we've talked about today, right, and we kind of touched on the therapist is not going to be perfect, a therapist might make a mistake with you. and we call it a rupture, right? They might say something that doesn't sit right with you. They might challenge you in a way that's a bit too much. they might say something that's culturally insensitive without realizing it.
Bethany Valenti 52:42
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:43
is going to repair that rupture.
Bethany Valenti 52:46
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:46
They're going to, first of all, notice that it happened.
Bethany Valenti 52:50
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:50
they will say something like, Hmm, I noticed that you just got quiet after I made that comment. Can you tell me more about that? I may have missed something there.
Bethany Valenti 52:59
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 52:59
they will admit when they're wrong. They will be the ones to initiate that repair and offer some kind of a bridge from that rupture to like, Hey, we can still work together. I'm really sorry about making that mistake. I will make sure that doesn't happen again.
Bethany Valenti 53:14
Yeah. And if they don't catch it themselves, if you tell them like, Hey, I was really uncomfortable with you pushing me in this way, for them to be able to say, okay, like, I hear you. How can we, how can I be more mindful of that in the future?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 53:28
Absolutely. Yes. That's it.
Bethany Valenti 53:30
I know that we're gonna have you back in the future, so I will just keep us to this
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 53:36
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 53:36
I will be caffeinated and all sorts of stuff when that happens and so we'll talk about wonderful things in the future. So are you up for switching to our wrap up questions?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 53:50
Absolutely, let's do it..
Bethany Valenti 53:52
Where are you licensed?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 53:55
I am licensed in the state of Colorado, so I can see anybody who's located in Colorado.
Bethany Valenti 54:00
And do you currently have openings?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 54:03
I do have a few openings. I'm very selective about who
Bethany Valenti 54:06
Hmm?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 54:07
take into my practice because it's going to be better for the client if it's a good fit.
Bethany Valenti 54:12
Absolutely.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 54:12
consultations. I make sure it's a good fit. So yes, I do have a few openings.
Bethany Valenti 54:16
Okay, great. how would you describe your theoretical orientation?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 54:21
that's another really good question. I am very attachment and relationship based.
Bethany Valenti 54:26
Hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 54:26
I think that building that relationship with the client is really important. and if the therapist has to serve as a temporary attachment figure because the client never had anybody be a positive role model in their life, then so be it. We just need to make sure it's not permanent and that the client is able to then fly on their own. so my theoretical orientation, like when it comes to EMDR and parts work, a lot of it is believing that we are not just a monolith of a person. We have all kinds of parts that may be different emotions within us, different thoughts. never really pathologizing any one of them. Recognizing that all of those parts have something good for you intention wise, they just may have a terrible execution of that intention. then how do we work with those parts in order to. negotiate a better way of working together rather than telling the part, no, you're wrong, go away. I don't want you here. so really
Bethany Valenti 55:21
Bad all the time.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 55:22
Right, right. It's really about helping the person deepen their relationship with themselves have more harmony, inner harmony. So it's not necessarily a theoretical orientation 'cause I don't necessarily do just psychodynamic or
Bethany Valenti 55:37
Right.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 55:38
that. but that's generally how I see my clients and what I want to help them do.
Bethany Valenti 55:43
Yeah, that's great. Do you take insurance?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 55:47
I do not take insurance.
Bethany Valenti 55:49
What's your current fee?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 55:51
My current fees $200 for a session that lasts generally about 50 minutes.
Bethany Valenti 55:57
Okay. And are you online or in person?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:00
I do online therapy with anybody who's located in Colorado and my office in person is in Broomfield, Colorado.
Bethany Valenti 56:08
Awesome. What do you nerd out about?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:11
Oh gosh. Professionally or personally.
Bethany Valenti 56:14
Oh, I'll let you decide.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:17
Let's talk personally, 'cause we
Bethany Valenti 56:18
Personal. I was gonna say personal, but I also knew like again, we'll have you back.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:23
Okay. So personally, I love horror movies and I love knitting
Bethany Valenti 56:27
Oh. Oh
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:31
Right? One is like, oh my God, you watch horror movies. The other one is like, oh, how nice. How comfy knitting.
Bethany Valenti 56:36
Do you knit while watching horror movies?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:39
I knit while watching horror movies. I love it. It's like literally what I do to relax all the time. I've seen every single good or bad horror movie that's available on like the three major streaming platforms and when a new one comes out, like I just watched A Good Boy the other day, I'm so excited. I'm like, okay, I can't wait to see this.
Bethany Valenti 56:57
it's called a good Boy.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 56:58
It's called Good Boy and it's about, a horror movie from the point of view of a dog.
Bethany Valenti 57:03
I saw the trailer for that like months ago. I forgot about that one. It looks not for me, but very good.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 57:14
Yeah, it was original.
Bethany Valenti 57:16
that's original. the little blurbs that were coming up in the ad for it, like just celebrating the dogs. Acting just like were just great. Like that alone would be enough.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 57:25
It is incredible. I don't know if they use the AI because if they didn't, that dog is a good actor.
Bethany Valenti 57:30
Was it good?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 57:31
good in my opinion. a bit maybe predictable towards the end, but still good enough that I would definitely recommend it. I was knitting a beautiful scarf while doing it,
Bethany Valenti 57:40
Hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 57:41
just so enjoyable.
Bethany Valenti 57:42
A good time. Because I think if part of the reason that that one's not for me is because it's more supernatural. Correct. it's like,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 57:52
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 57:54
I'm glad you like that and I'm glad to know that it's good. I can read about it or we can chat about it, but I probably couldn't watch it.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 58:01
No, I hear you. Like personally, I don't like horror movies where the perpetrator is human, so like a slasher or like somebody who does a home invasion and then terrorizes the family. I hate those. I'm like, no, thank you. I don't want anything real that could potentially happen to me or somebody I care about I don't wanna watch that.
Bethany Valenti 58:21
even you got your limits.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 58:22
stuff, I have my limits for sure.
Bethany Valenti 58:25
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 58:26
I love. It's just, I like the stories. Sometimes the acting is terrible and that makes it good.
Bethany Valenti 58:31
Mm-hmm. Makes it more entertaining.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 58:33
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 58:35
did. Oh, see, then you wouldn't wanna watch this one? I just thought about the one with, Hugh Grant that came out a while back. I was just gonna be curious if you liked that one.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 58:42
what it's called, but yes, it
Bethany Valenti 58:43
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 58:45
so I didn't
Bethany Valenti 58:45
It was a So you didn't watch it? Okay. See there's somewhere I want be like, how is this one? How is this one? okay, but let me ask you about this one. What about, oh, what's it called? They just came out with a sequel. Is it called Black Phone or something like that?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:00
Yes.
Bethany Valenti 59:01
Ethan Hawk. they just came out with a sequel and that one was clear. Like, they were like, there's, there's a overlap. There's like an intersect between real and like supernatural in that
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:14
right.
Bethany Valenti 59:14
is that something you'll do?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:16
two yet, but
Bethany Valenti 59:17
Okay.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:18
Yes,
Bethany Valenti 59:18
Okay.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:19
there's a
Bethany Valenti 59:19
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:20
element.
Bethany Valenti 59:20
Did you see the first one?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:22
I did see the first
Bethany Valenti 59:23
Okay.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:24
it.
Bethany Valenti 59:24
Enjoyed it.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:25
am a therapist, so of course I like, movies where there's an intersection of horror and trauma. So like Smile
Bethany Valenti 59:31
yeah,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:32
was a good one. Oculus is an excellent horror movie where they definitely deal with family trauma.
Bethany Valenti 59:38
is that the one with the mirror thing? Oculus?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:41
the one with a mirror and they, it's kind of the way it's presented. It's like, is it a supernatural mirror or is it something happening within the family that's like being abusive or whatever.
Bethany Valenti 59:52
Fascinating.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:53
spoiling anything
Bethany Valenti 59:54
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 59:54
that's where I will leave
Bethany Valenti 59:55
Yeah. You probably like Babadook then, don't you?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:00
I love Babadook.
Bethany Valenti 1:00:01
Okay. I was like, you really like Babadook.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:03
Good
Bethany Valenti 1:00:03
Yeah, that's,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:04
of
Bethany Valenti 1:00:04
Yeah. Those are good ones. Not that I've seen it, but I, like I told you, I'll sometimes sit and read like the descriptions, like IMDB, like the little description. Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:13
My husband hates them because he doesn't like jump scares, not because he gets scared, because if I like jump and scream, then he gets like, he was like, oh my God.
Bethany Valenti 1:00:22
So you still jump? I'm very jumpy. Like, and that's partly like why the jump, the stuff that jumps out, I can't. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:30
It depends. 'cause like some, when you watch a lot of horror movies, you get used to like, oh, the music is swelling. There's gonna
Bethany Valenti 1:00:36
Yeah. Something's coming. Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:38
are really good about not being like cliche and you don't know what to expect. Those, I still do get scared. I might still jump, but there's even a website called Where's the jump scare.com, where you can,
Bethany Valenti 1:00:51
Oh
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:00:51
tell you with timestamps what to expect in each movie. So if you are somebody who's jumpy, you can know what, like you can still watch a movie and be like, okay, it's coming.
Bethany Valenti 1:01:01
yeah. Just if you can't tell from the music, it's coming.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:01:05
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Valenti 1:01:07
Yeah, I could talk to you about that for a while. Just because I don't watch them, I then like to talk to people who do and be like, okay, so what happened to this movie so I don't have to like watch,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:01:15
Yeah.
Bethany Valenti 1:01:16
And what were your thoughts?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:01:17
Yeah, my theory about horror movies is if you have a client who's like really, like if you look at that window of tolerance and they're really below their window of tolerance and they're really depressed, numb, dissociated, not interested in anything, I sometimes will recommend if it's within something they wanna do, I'll recommend. I'm like, have you thought about watching a horror movie with like a good jump scare? that might rev their nervous system into more of a fight or flight response. And if you're familiar with polyvagal theory,
Bethany Valenti 1:01:48
Yep.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:01:48
you get to a better place. You have to go through that fight or flight briefly
Bethany Valenti 1:01:52
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:01:53
to a place of like calm and peace and social engagement. So I have definitely recommended it to clients.
Bethany Valenti 1:01:59
Wow. That's fascinating. So. Oh, there was one other thing I was gonna It's gone. 'cause you made that point and I thought was so interesting, but then I also lost mine, so That's okay. Do you have any pets?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:13
I do. I have two dogs. they are both so adorable.
Bethany Valenti 1:02:18
So cute.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:19
Hazel
Bethany Valenti 1:02:19
Yes?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:20
One is a Jack Russell Terrier, an Italian Greyhound,
Bethany Valenti 1:02:24
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:24
She looks very, very beautiful. And the other one is a Jack Russell Terrier and a Dachshund, which she's a little clumsy and maybe not as beautiful in my opinion.
Bethany Valenti 1:02:35
She is so cute
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:37
and
Bethany Valenti 1:02:37
though.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:37
she might be a bit more of a stumpy little legs, but she's adorable. I
Bethany Valenti 1:02:42
I love stumpy little legs.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:45
They're
Bethany Valenti 1:02:45
cute. I forgot we both have a sunny,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:49
Oh,
Bethany Valenti 1:02:49
but we ha but we spell 'em different, I think. so what's something that you find comforting?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:02:57
Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, knitting would definitely be something that's comforting for me. I find it to be very calming and meditative,
Bethany Valenti 1:03:05
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:06
if you find a pattern where there's like an easy repeat.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:10
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:10
it's not too easy that you get bored and it's not too challenging that you have to keep checking your notes for the pattern.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:17
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:17
that's the sweet spot for me.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:19
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:20
I really love spending time with my husband. maybe that's lame. but
Bethany Valenti 1:03:25
No, it's nice.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:26
together, we do conversation cards. If we can't
Bethany Valenti 1:03:29
Oh, cute.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:30
topic on our own, we it Tiki time after Malcolm in the middle. So we just will sit there and have endless conversations. We've
Bethany Valenti 1:03:38
Yes.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:38
10 years and we don't get bored.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:41
I love that Malcolm The middle is having a reboot.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:44
They are and we're very excited 'cause we watch that show like every night before going to bed to settle down. We'll
Bethany Valenti 1:03:50
Aw.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:03:50
Malcolm in the middle.
Bethany Valenti 1:03:52
Yay. That's so great. And I just had my thought it came back. I was just gonna say that I actually saw an article come up that an expert was talking about why people like horror movies and about how it actually makes them feel better about their lives.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:06
Yeah. that's true.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:07
It was like, whatever I have going on, it's a form of escape that at least somebody in this world has it worse than I do.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:13
At least my house is not haunted
Bethany Valenti 1:04:16
Yes, do you do coffee or tea?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:19
coffee.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:20
And what is your least favorite misconception about mental health work?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:25
Hmm. I'm going to steal what we talked about today, and I'm gonna say it's the misconception that therapists are supposed to be perfect
Bethany Valenti 1:04:35
Hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:36
like any of their own issues.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:39
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:39
I think the idea is that we keep working on our issues and we're self-aware enough to know we have issues and that we need support.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:47
Yeah,
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:47
we are perfect humans, we don't have any issues.
Bethany Valenti 1:04:51
absolutely. So Anna, where can people find you if they wanna learn more about you? You have your own podcast that people could listen to.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:04:59
Yes, I do. So the best place to find me would be my website and it's courage to heal therapy.com. you can put it in your show notes.
Bethany Valenti 1:05:07
Yeah, absolutely.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:05:08
On there people can find my podcast. My podcast is called Courage to Heal, just like my practice. So you can find it in all the places where you listen to podcasts. And I talk about mental health. I stay away from just saying I talk about one thing
Bethany Valenti 1:05:23
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:05:24
like to diversify and talk about all things mental health. So you can really find, you know, some episodes it's interview, some, it's just me talking.
Bethany Valenti 1:05:32
I was gonna make a joke that that was too broad and that was a red flag.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:05:36
Good one. Yes, good one.
Bethany Valenti 1:05:38
it's not a podcast red flag. Let's just be clear.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:05:41
Yeah, because I do love some podcasts that are really focused on one issue. I think
Bethany Valenti 1:05:46
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:05:47
really in depth about it. I did do like the first 10 episodes are all about bipolar disorder, because that's my specialty. That's something I live with. So that's really near and dear to my heart. So if you live with that, definitely listen to the first 10 episodes. You'll learn a whole bunch of things and just hear interviews with people who have that as a lived experience. But other than that, yeah, just check out my website. And then for your listeners too, I would love to give them a guide on how to find a great therapist,
Bethany Valenti 1:06:17
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:06:18
that goes really well with what we talked about today. And that guide is totally free. They just have to sign up with their email. I'll give you the link. in that guide, they have a list of every possible directory under the sun, because I think everybody knows about Psychology today, but there's a lot more that people can check out.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:36
Yeah.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:06:37
some that are focused on a specific identity of the client,
Bethany Valenti 1:06:40
Mm-hmm.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:06:41
there's therapy for black girls, queer therapy, there's all kinds of specialized directories there.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:47
I'm gonna need this resource. I'm gonna Go put my email so I can get this freebie, Anna.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:06:53
you know what, I don't have the link off the top of my head.
Bethany Valenti 1:06:55
Okay. Is it on your website?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:06:57
that one is not directly on my website, so I'll give you the link for that.
Bethany Valenti 1:07:01
Okay.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:07:02
It has questions you can ask during that consultation with a potential therapist.
Bethany Valenti 1:07:07
Okay. Yeah. Anna Khandrueva, is that right? Khandrueva?
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:07:15
Yes, you nailed it.
Bethany Valenti 1:07:17
Anna Khandrueva, thank you so much for your time today.
Anna Khandrueva | couragetohealtherapy 1:07:20
Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun and I really can't wait to return and talk to you again.
Bethany Valenti 1:07:26
Same.
